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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Beasty View Post
Most Americans can not make choices in their own best interest.
I cannot argue with that.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:13 PM   #12
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Oh hell. Its time for another installment of bat shit crazy socialism. This time I bring you Toward Freedom: Democratic Socialist Theory and Practice.
Toward Freedom: Democratic Socialist Theory and Practice - Democratic Socialists of America

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Democratic socialists believe that the individuality of each human being can only be developed in a society embodying the values of liberty, equality, and solidarity. These beliefs do not entail a crude conception of equality that conceives of human beings as equal in all respects. Rather, if human beings are to develop their distinct capacities they must be accorded equal respect and opportunities denied them by the inequalities of capitalist society, in which the life opportunities of a child born in the inner city are starkly less than that of a child born in an affluent suburb. A democratic community committed to the equal moral worth of each citizen will socially provide the cultural and economic necessities—food, housing, quality education, healthcare, childcare—for the development of human individuality.
Liberty, good idea I am all for it! Equality? Everyone equal? Solidarity! Sure, its nice if everyone can agree, but individuality usually means were different.
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A democratic community committed to the equal moral worth of each citizen will socially provide the cultural and economic necessities—food, housing, quality education, healthcare, childcare—for the development of human individuality.
Oh, that kind of equality. Were going to give you everything you need to live for free. Well,not free, I mean the people who already paid for those things will pay for it. Thats equal! Its not fair, but hey, fuck fair were in the equality game now bitches!
Quote:
Achieving this diversity and opportunity necessitates a fundamental restructuring of our socioeconomic order. While the freedoms that exist under democratic capitalism are gains of popular struggle to be cherished, democratic socialists argue that the values of liberal democracy can only be fulfilled when the economy as well as the government is democratically controlled.
We got that total mob rule shit down to a science now. The hell with the Republic!
Quote:
We cannot accept capitalism’s conception of economic relations as “free and private,” because contracts are not made among economic equals and because they give rise to social structures which undemocratically confer power upon some over others. Such relationships are undemocratic in that the citizens involved have not freely deliberated upon the structure of those institutions and how social roles should be distributed within them (e.g., the relationship between capital and labor in the workplace or men and women in child rearing). We do not imagine that all institutional relations would wither away under socialism, but we do believe that the basic contours of society must be democratically constructed by the free deliberation of its members.
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because they give rise to social structures which undemocratically confer power upon some over others
.
That part means someone has more money than you and more stuff than you and its not fair to you.
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We do not imagine that all institutional relations would wither away under socialism, but we do believe that the basic contours of society must be democratically constructed by the free deliberation of its members.
That means, what the mob says will happen. Your rights as an individual in regards to owning stuff is out the door. Now do as the mob says. Oh, yeah, to hell with the Republic.
In retrospect, however, Marx did not make clear his commitment to political democracy.
Quote:
Marx often implied that under advanced socialism—communism—control of production by the “free association of producers” would end the need for politics. But even a society characterized by worker self-management of production and distribution would need political pluralism; there is no reason to think that there is one exact “right” answer as to how socialism should be constructed, or that there is no politics apart from economic issues. Democratic debates over policy are, therefore, inevitable.
That means, that we got to make up shit about what socialism really is. Then we implement how it truly is. Now, make it easier people. Start labeling your stuff so we can better decide how we can equally redistribute it.
Quote:
Socialists therefore argue that private corporate property is not only wrong, but also nonsensical. Wealth is a social creation and should be controlled by society as a whole. Of course, socialists must take seriously objections that there would be a need for expertise (say, for surgeons and engineers) and job specialization under socialism. The division of labor might well be eroded by the rotation of menial tasks, frequent sabbaticals, job retraining, shortening the workweek, and increasing the creativity of “leisure” activity. But however we organize the division of labor—the structure of careers and life opportunities—it should be decided democratically and not by the accident of chance or of opportunities conferred or denied by one’s class position.
LMAO. Yes, it is true. Your fun loving Bernie Sanders is in league with an outfit, that might, if your really really needed make some exceptions in allowing you a lil bit of extra wealth. Oh yeah, and your career choice and life opportunitites. No need to worry. Its going to be "democratically" decided for you.
Quote:
It turned out that Marx was overly optimistic about the development of class-consciousness and revolutionary activity on the part of the working class. Though Marx recognized that the working class was divided by functional tasks, ethnicity, and race, he believed that trade union struggle and political activity would engender a universal identity on the part of the working class committed to socialism. But the paradox of mature capitalism is its coexistence with universal suffrage. In no country has there yet been mobilized a conscious majority for socialism. This is not to deny the significant popular support for social democratic and labor parties that favor a mixed economy and greater socioeconomic equality. But even in Sweden there has yet to develop a conscious electoral majority for a cooperatively-run economy.
Thats right. No country has ever mobilized a conscious majority for socialism. Right. Got that part. Well, except the USSR, China. But, hey shhhh dont mention those two. One failed and the other became capitalist lol. Not even in Sweden has this happened! Holy shit, not Sweden. The poster child of socialism. Sweden. Wait, quick someone get me some Swedish happy indexes.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:15 PM   #13
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Marxism does not require strict gun control. Why do you have to misrepresent ideologies?
Every source I use is coming from There is No Second Amendment Right To A Gun - Democratic Socialists of America

that is the democratic socialist of america. Take it up with them. Not me.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:18 PM   #14
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So you made a new thread to post the same argument that I rebuttal within 2 other threads. Why again?

And guess what. Most American and I believe even most republicans, agree that taxes should be raised on the wealthy. Most Americans also agree with me that we should have a national healthcare system. I have a list proving that MOST AMERICANS agree with my ideology.

That doesn't make us Nazis, Marxist or whatever silly hyperbole names you like to throw out.

And guess what. You believe that out socialist traffic signs are a good thing.
Feel free to rebuttal anything I say in regards to the subject matter that I am exclusively getting from the Democratic Socialist of America web site. Feel free to throw your label on what I am all you want. Hell, you can say I am really a communist. Thats great. Guess what. I will vote straight ticket republican. Hell, remind me. I will take a pic of me voting straight ticket GoP in the next election and let you see it.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:21 PM   #15
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Every source I use is coming from There is No Second Amendment Right To A Gun - Democratic Socialists of America

that is the democratic socialist of america. Take it up with them. Not me.
The Democratic Socialists of America is an organization. It is not the ideology of Marxism. Marxism does not require you to be anti-gun or pro-gun for that matter. Certain Socialists might be for or against the right to bear arms. That is a problem to bring up with that particular party or organization. It's not fair to conflate that with every other person, party or organization, which is what you do when you say "Socialists are anti-gun". No, you mean the socialists in the "democratic socialists of america" are anti-gun.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:27 PM   #16
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The Democratic Socialists of America is an organization. It is not the ideology of Marxism. Marxism does not require you to be anti-gun or pro-gun for that matter. Certain Socialists might be for or against the right to bear arms. That is a problem to bring up with that particular party or organization. It's not fair to conflate that with every other person, party or organization, which is what you do when you say "Socialists are anti-gun". No, you mean the socialists in the "democratic socialists of america" are anti-gun.
Let me explain to you what this thread is about. For weeks I and others have tried to get the socialist on here to explain their positions. It has been fruitless. The last attempt ended up with Fayt just saying every government social program is socialist. Therefore the nation is socialist. And if you drive on the road you are a socialist. So, I have decided to use just the democratic socialist of america website for all my sources on this thread. I am going to explain, what they really mean, in my opinion. If any socialist want to jump in and attempt to correct me on that then they are welcome.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #17
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Let me explain to you what this thread is about. For weeks I and others have tried to get the socialist on here to explain their positions. It has been fruitless. The last attempt ended up with Fayt just saying every government social program is socialist. Therefore the nation is socialist. And if you drive on the road you are a socialist. So, I have decided to use just the democratic socialist of america website for all my sources on this thread. I am going to explain, what they really mean, in my opinion. If any socialist want to jump in and attempt to correct me on that then they are welcome.
I am not a socialist, so I cannot do that for you. I just don't think it's fair to equate a single party or organization with the entire ideology it falls under. It wouldn't be fair to say "conservatives are anti-women" because some conservative group says women shouldn't work in "x" field or have "x" rights. I would speak up then as much as I do now.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 06:47 PM   #18
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I am not a socialist, so I cannot do that for you. I just don't think it's fair to equate a single party or organization with the entire ideology it falls under. It wouldn't be fair to say "conservatives are anti-women" because some conservative group says women shouldn't work in "x" field or have "x" rights. I would speak up then as much as I do now.
I agree with you! Which is why I am welcoming the Democratic Socialists to actually explain their positions and more importantly how they seek to implement those ideas. So far, confiscation of privately owned property is all I can see.
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Last edited by coke; October 19th, 2015 at 06:50 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 07:07 PM   #19
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This may be one of the most stupid Second Amendment pieces I have read. Max lied with the headline and it only went downhill from there. It read like someone with only a high school degree writing about history and the law, which is what it is.
"high school degree writing about history and the law" Abraham Lincoln never went to college but passed the Illinois Bar. I never went to college and barely graduated High School. Both Old Abe and me knew how to read books and we both became successful. A college diploma is almost worthless, just ask the student loan abusers.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 07:13 PM   #20
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"high school degree writing about history and the law" Abraham Lincoln never went to college but passed the Illinois Bar. I never went to college and barely graduated High School. Both Old Abe and me knew how to read books and we both became successful. A college diploma is almost worthless, just ask the student loan abusers.
As someone who ended up with a maritime engineers license, without going to college, I see some validity in your statement. But, I also believe that a lot of the problem is not with college, its with the individual choices made. You get a worthless degree, you still pay for it. Major in medieval art, good luck. Get a degree in mechanical engineering or civil engineer as example. Your not going to have a problem with student loans being paid back, unless you just do not want to pay them back. Which would make you a thief, not a abuser.
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