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Old December 13th, 2015, 01:28 PM   #71
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From the economic perspective, the situation of the average German, under Hitler before and during the early stages of the war was vastly superior to that of the average Soviet citizen.
True, though due to restrictions on importing goods and the economy being focused on rearmament the average German worker had less access than workers in France and Britain to consumer goods.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 01:40 PM   #72
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IMO if we are going to use "health" for the two maybe the Black Death and Ebola may be a little more accurate since both can be generally avoided if you keep them from infecting your people where as your example just kills randomly and precautions are limited.
The two are different in the way they infect.
Ebola can only be contracted by direct contact with the bodily fluids of infected people who are showing clear signs of infection, while the Black Death could be contacted by airborne virus from people not showing any signs of infection
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Old December 13th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #73
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Personally I am looking at them from an economic and personal liberty perspective. I don't see much of a difference for the average citizens life between the two schools once they gain complete control.

Try to look at what they were doing and try to apply it to modern times. Of course the past applications were different and the ideologies were different. Fuck they were killing each other. But what was it like for the farmer, the hooker, the doctor under these statist regimes? That is the question, the point that I am trying to get across. What the suit is babbling at the cameras is irrelevant. It is the lives of the people living under a police state. Expecting the PC police to come knocking at their door in the middle of the night because they neglected to call about their neighbors radical ideas and stockpiles of drinking water.


IMO if we are going to use "health" for the two maybe the Black Death and Ebola may be a little more accurate since both can be generally avoided if you keep them from infecting your people where as your example just kills randomly and precautions are limited.
As Asminov, ok I probably totally killed that spelling. Anyway as he pointed out earlier. Extreme left and extreme right are not a line. Instead it curves around. If the middle is the top of the circle then extreme left and extreme right will meet at the bottom of the circle. That I absolutely agree with.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 02:55 PM   #74
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Ideologically they were polar opposites, in practice not as much. There were key differences though. The SU's promotion of socialist patriotism was markedly different from Nazi racial nationalism, and the SU's economy was completely owned by state officials in contrast to Hitler's policy which insisted on private property for the sake of competition. There was also much less wealth inequality in the SU than in the capitalist West. Sure, Communist Party members would get benefits, but it's definitely worth noting they would be three or maybe four times wealthier than the average person as opposed to the 10,000 to 1 ratios you see under capitalism.
My Soviet-born wife just shook her head reading this. Communist Party membership was required for the better jobs, but the party bosses had the best jobs, had the very best healthcare, access to food items ordinary people and party members never saw, had private housing for free, access to fashionable clothing, and had cars. They were much, much better off than the ordinary folks who bore the brunt of all shortages, including toilet paper.

And here's the irony. The prices in the stores for party bosses were much cheaper than the "people's" stores, insult onto injury.

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The Soviets didn't kill 3,000,000 German prisoners or attempt genocide. The same can't be said for the Nazis.
You must be unfamiliar with the Holodomor, 1932-33. No one knows how many Ukrainians were starved to death by Stalin. Estimates range from 2.5-7.5 million or more. It was a genocide. In 1937-38, Stalin's "Great Terror" claimed around 700,000 lives, some of the USSR's best minds and generals.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 03:05 PM   #75
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You're right about one thing at least, coke. Calling social democracy socialism is like calling libertarians ancaps. However in the Nordic states we can still see the benefits even mild center-left reform can bring to a population. If everyone decided to go even further maybe the world would be a bit less of a sinkhole.
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social democracy socialism
Do we have a new label? Another label change? Is Democratic Socialism out? Are we now using Social Democracy Socialism?
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Old December 13th, 2015, 03:14 PM   #76
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Do we have a new label? Another label change? Is Democratic Socialism out? Are we now using Social Democracy Socialism?
They all mean the same thing = we don't like the distribution of wealth, so we'll just take it from the rich
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Old December 13th, 2015, 03:17 PM   #77
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Under President Obama, Americans have now endured six years of tax increases, endless regulation, vast new federal programs and $8 trillion in added debt. The president told us this “stimulus” would jump-start the economy. Instead, we got an anemic economy growing at barely 2% a year. Some call this “the new normal”—but it isn’t something we can accept if we are going to restore the opportunity for every American to rise and achieve earned success.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #78
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Under President Obama, Americans have now endured six years of tax increases, endless regulation, vast new federal programs and $8 trillion in added debt. The president told us this “stimulus” would jump-start the economy. Instead, we got an anemic economy growing at barely 2% a year. Some call this “the new normal”—but it isn’t something we can accept if we are going to restore the opportunity for every American to rise and achieve earned success.
I agree with you on the economic growth, but at the same time I really do not hold President Obama responsible for everything. To be honest most of the economic successes have been from the government, including President Obama, doing nothing. When the government stopped QE. The economy bumped. Sequestration kicked in, the currency value went up. The ACA is absolutely one thing that is holding back the economy. The ACA is doing exactly what the right said it would do. Its becoming more and more obvious that the ACA will probably end up dying on its own. The sad part is how much damage that law will do before it does die. You are going to see less full time hiring, your going to see jobs shutter more especially in the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage markets. The left does not understand something. I can order from Amazon just as easy as going to the local hardware store. If I do not need it today, why help pay 15 bucks an hour wages? I will go to the cheapest source. Walmart, the iconic evil villain so say the left, is slowly getting its clocked by Amazon. Obvious answer is because Amazon is cheaper. They offer more bang for your buck. And, Amazon has embraced the modern market. That is why the left understands to advance their narratives, we have to kill capitalism and economic competition. That is the only way we can achieve making everyone equally poor
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Old December 13th, 2015, 03:33 PM   #79
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I agree with you on the economic growth, but at the same time I really do not hold President Obama responsible for everything. To be honest most of the economic successes have been from the government, including President Obama, doing nothing. When the government stopped QE. The economy bumped. Sequestration kicked in, the currency value went up. The ACA is absolutely one thing that is holding back the economy. The ACA is doing exactly what the right said it would do. Its becoming more and more obvious that the ACA will probably end up dying on its own. The sad part is how much damage that law will do before it does die. You are going to see less full time hiring, your going to see jobs shutter more especially in the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage markets. The left does not understand something. I can order from Amazon just as easy as going to the local hardware store. If I do not need it today, why help pay 15 bucks an hour wages? I will go to the cheapest source. Walmart, the iconic evil villain so say the left, is slowly getting its clocked by Amazon. Obvious answer is because Amazon is cheaper. They offer more bang for your buck. And, Amazon has embraced the modern market. That is why the left understands to advance their narratives, we have to kill capitalism and economic competition. That is the only way we can achieve making everyone equally poor
ObamaCare is a government takeover of more than one-sixth of the American economy, and it epitomizes why Americans are so fed up with Washington. To win on repeal, conservatives must unite around a vision of health care for the future – one that enables transformational innovation.

We must:
1. Promote innovation
2. Lower costs
3. Return power to states

Health care costs grow faster than any other sector of the economy and innovation lags. Why? Washington over-regulation in health care creates high barriers to entry, adds excessive costs, fosters excessive complexity and impedes innovation.

We need to:
1. Modernize the Food and Drug Administration’s regulatory morass and increase funding and accountability at the National Institutes of Health

2. Promote private sector leadership of health information technology adoption and enable better access to patient de-identified Medicare and Medicaid claims data

3. Establish a comprehensive review of regulatory barriers to health innovation

Washington over-regulation in health care creates high barriers to entry, adds excessive costs, fosters excessive complexity and impedes innovation.

Until health care is oriented around consumers, providers and innovation, Americans will not get better value and results out of the health care system. In addition, coverage options must reflect a modern, 21st century workforce where workers frequently switch jobs or start new businesses and need the security of portable coverage.

It is critical to have a well-functioning individual market side-by-side with a strong employer-sponsored coverage market. The employer health insurance market represents a strong and innovative coverage platform for 154 million Americans. To improve coverage, we should:

- Provide a tax credit for the purchase of affordable, portable health plans that protect Americans from high-cost medical events
- Increase contribution limits and uses for Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) to help with out-of-pocket costs
- Facilitate transparency on costs and outcomes
- Cap the employer tax exclusion to lower insurance premiums
- Allow employers to use financial incentives to encourage wellness programs
- Enable small businesses to make tax-free contributions to their workers’ individual, portable health plans

States should have responsibility, freedom and accountability to make their individual insurance markets more competitive, enhance access to care and design solutions for vulnerable Americans. Instead of Washington standardization, this approach emphasizes transparent outcome standards. States will have streamlined, capped federal funding and be responsible for meeting transparent metrics to:

- Make their insurance markets more competitive. This will include enabling access to affordable, catastrophic plans in their states; a continuous coverage guarantee for individuals with pre-existing conditions; access to affordable care and improved health outcomes in their state; lower health care cost growth, including medical liability reform; and a transition plan for the 17 million individuals entangled in ObamaCare.

- Strengthen the health care safety net. To achieve this, states may use a number of strategies: individualized, community-based benefit designs; coordinated care for individuals with behavioral health conditions and the disabled; tailored care delivery to reflect the diversity of state populations; personalized care solutions for high-risk individuals with proven data analytics; work requirements for able-bodied individuals; premium assistance for individual and employer-provided coverage; and consolidated funding from various programs to better coordinate care.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #80
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Under President Obama, Americans have now endured six years of tax increases, endless regulation, vast new federal programs and $8 trillion in added debt. The president told us this “stimulus” would jump-start the economy. Instead, we got an anemic economy growing at barely 2% a year. Some call this “the new normal”—but it isn’t something we can accept if we are going to restore the opportunity for every American to rise and achieve earned success.
No, this is exactly wrong.

The entire world is connected now. Everybody wants a piece of the pie, and why shouldn't they have it?

For decades, the US, 5 percent of the world's population and even less now, consumed 25 percent of the world's output of goods and services. That my friend is empire.

Folks on the right side often note that poor people in the US would be considered wealthy people in many parts of the world. They said it, but they don't hear what they are saying.

They also say that the key to more people enjoying "The American Dream" is to produce more by reducing regulations and turning the capitalist engine loose. Last week, in Beijing:



Quite simply, the planet cannot begin to support many more American Dream seekers. So something has to give.

If we had honest politicians, you would have already heard what I'm saying. But no, these whores keep talking about US citizens always having more than the previous generation.

During the Bush and Obama years, the American Dream hit reality. It's time to get real, but fantasies can be so hard to let go of.
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