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Old April 9th, 2016, 03:03 PM   #11
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Is my very appearance in a thread enough to get you foaming at the mouth? You say I told you how to argue, and while not strictly untrue that's certainly a bizarre way of wording the fact that I criticized your argument regarding the righteousness of private enterprise. At any rate, as much as I enjoy these little confrontations I think it's obvious this is going to be a boring thread so I'll save it for later.
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Old April 10th, 2016, 05:18 PM   #12
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"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States;"
Do you have any idea what was meant by the term "General Welfare" as written into the Constitution??
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Old April 10th, 2016, 05:25 PM   #13
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Do you have any idea what was meant by the term "General Welfare" as written into the Constitution??


I'll just bet you're about to tell me....whether I know or not? Am I right?
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Old April 10th, 2016, 05:55 PM   #14
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I'll just bet you're about to tell me....whether I know or not? Am I right?
No...i am a gentleman....I'll let you go first.....Tell me "What did they mean by "General Welfare" when they wrote the Constitution?
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Old April 10th, 2016, 06:48 PM   #15
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Well I see Clara is not going to answer me...So>>>>

reprint of the 1828 edition of Noah Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language. Here is how the word "welfare" was defined 40 years after it was written in the Constitution:

WEL´FARE, n. [well and fare, a good going; G. wohlfahrt; D. welvaard; Sw. valfart; Dan. velfærd.]
1. Exemption from misfortune, sickness, calamity or evil; the enjoyment of health and the common blessings of life; prosperity; happiness; applied to persons.
2. Exemption from any unusual evil or calamity; the enjoyment of peace and prosperity, or the ordinary blessings of society and civil government; applies to states.

A clear distinction is made with respect to welfare as applied to persons and states. In the Constitution the word "welfare" is used in the context of states and not persons. The "welfare of the United States" is not congruous with the welfare of individuals, people, or citizens.
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Old April 10th, 2016, 07:18 PM   #16
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Well I see Clara is not going to answer me...So>>>>

reprint of the 1828 edition of Noah Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language. Here is how the word "welfare" was defined 40 years after it was written in the Constitution:

WEL´FARE, n. [well and fare, a good going; G. wohlfahrt; D. welvaard; Sw. valfart; Dan. velfærd.]
1. Exemption from misfortune, sickness, calamity or evil; the enjoyment of health and the common blessings of life; prosperity; happiness; applied to persons.
2. Exemption from any unusual evil or calamity; the enjoyment of peace and prosperity, or the ordinary blessings of society and civil government; applies to states.

A clear distinction is made with respect to welfare as applied to persons and states. In the Constitution the word "welfare" is used in the context of states and not persons. The "welfare of the United States" is not congruous with the welfare of individuals, people, or citizens.
Allow me to add a little more textualism:

The word “provide” in the 18th century meant to procure beforehand as evidence by 18th century dictionaries: to procure beforehand; to get ready; to prepare. To look ahead and be prepared was the context. It has a completely different meaning today: to make available; furnish.

Notice in Article 1, Section 8 the difference in verbs; this was not a grammatical mistake: “…taxes will be levied to “pay the debts” but then the verb changes to provide for the common defense and general welfare. Not pay, but provide. This is not the only time the term “provide” is use in the Constitution in this context.

A clear distinction is made with respect to welfare as applied to persons and states. In the Constitution the word "welfare" is used in the context of states, not persons. The "welfare of the United States" is not congruous with the welfare of individuals, people, or citizens.
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Old April 11th, 2016, 09:18 AM   #17
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Allow me to add a little more textualism:

The word “provide” in the 18th century meant to procure beforehand as evidence by 18th century dictionaries: to procure beforehand; to get ready; to prepare. To look ahead and be prepared was the context. It has a completely different meaning today: to make available; furnish.

Notice in Article 1, Section 8 the difference in verbs; this was not a grammatical mistake: “…taxes will be levied to “pay the debts” but then the verb changes to provide for the common defense and general welfare. Not pay, but provide. This is not the only time the term “provide” is use in the Constitution in this context.

A clear distinction is made with respect to welfare as applied to persons and states. In the Constitution the word "welfare" is used in the context of states, not persons. The "welfare of the United States" is not congruous with the welfare of individuals, people, or citizens.
I appreciate your input....Clara will not give us her definition of "welfare".... This word is the key to all Liberal agendas....It is the root cause of this $19 Trillion national debt....It's redefining was a huge mistake of the Owen Rodgers Court in US v Miller case.....They used Hamilton's reasoning which was opposed by virtually all the other founders....
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Old April 11th, 2016, 09:45 AM   #18
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I appreciate your input....Clara will not give us her definition of "welfare".... This word is the key to all Liberal agendas....It is the root cause of this $19 Trillion national debt....It's redefining was a huge mistake of the Owen Rodgers Court in US v Miller case.....They used Hamilton's reasoning which was opposed by virtually all the other founders....


Now now now. Let's let Clara think about this, do a little research and don't start generalizing about Liberal agendas. Please don't automatically assume you know exactly WHAT I think.
First, I'm rather surprised that you began with Webster, but that's cool. So
I'll counter with Webster: (http://www.merriamwebster.com/dictionary/general).
promote - support or actively encourage.
general - affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things;
welfare - the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.

So, promoting the general welfare is the act of actively encouraging the widespread health, happiness and fortunes of Americans. Right?

Having said that, I also know that the phrase 'promote the general welfare' has been the topic of debate that has been going on, nearly as long as the Constitution itself. Much of what we argue about now, regarding the functions and limitations of Government -- they argued about back then, when our Constitutional "experiment" was just beginning. So, I'm guessing that those of us on DTT won't come to any consensus.
Here's what I know for sure: Congress appropriates money for a seemingly endless number of national interests, ranging from federal courts, policing, imprisonment, and national security to social programs, environmental protection, and education. No federal court has struck down a spending program on the ground that it failed to promote the general welfare. However, federal spending programs have been struck down on other constitutional grounds.

Okay, boys. Bring it on!
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Old April 11th, 2016, 11:43 AM   #19
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Boy, how many times have we had this debate? These guys will never admit that they're wrong. And here's why.

Why Facts Won't Help You Win Arguments


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0QLjA1GSVI
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Old April 11th, 2016, 12:37 PM   #20
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Boy, how many times have we had this debate? These guys will never admit that they're wrong. And here's why.

Why Facts Won't Help You Win Arguments


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0QLjA1GSVI
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