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Old February 19th, 2018, 01:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
you do realize that this is happening NOW. in only 10 years or so they have gone from a beacon of hope for the socialist agenda to a complete failure that is being pushed under the rug?

this is getting little to no coverage here in the states as the media is trying to hype the young, uninformed and stupid into this frenzy of socialism is good. when just 50 years or so again we were told the excuse to send our boys over seas to their deaths was to fight the spread of communism. now in real time we can watch a socialist experiment fail in such an epic way that the reasons are beyond obvious. the exact reasons to argue against socialism are acting out right before our very eyes and now...suddenly it is not socialism. when all of the resources were being redistributed to "the people" it was all sunshine and unicorns but now that it is failing it is a corrupt dictator. how lovely it must be to be a statist and have the luxury to move the goal posts and change the terminology when it is convenient.

again i ask. if tis is not a socialist economic structure then what is it?

because Venezuela said that it was socialism

economists say that it is socialism

the media (until recently) said it was socialism

so...?
Venezuela has been a legitimate attempt to create a socialist country. However, it has long been the victim of some of the most corrupt, insidious, underhanded attacks of all types from all sides on all aspects of their system by the U.S.

The U.S., as the leading capitalist country in the world, has made it the business of the government to do everything possible to undermine and end every Marxist country that dares crop up. And while it's covert and overt activities have been supported by funding of opposition and murder of Marxist leaders, the U.S. has established and developed in-country propaganda centers that spread confusion and lies as a major part of the program.

Lies? Yes, lies. Remember the story that we had to fight communism in Vietnam or we'd be fighting them on our shores? Not only did it never happen of even threaten, but it's also completely contrary to both Marxist strategy and common sense. That's one example that most of us can see was a lie. And there are many more, like the long time we were told Russia was "communist" when they were actually moving into state-controlled capitalism.

But Venezuela... https://youtu.be/puKZepPEohU
One year ago the IMF said Venezuela’s growth rate was -8%, the inflation rate was 482%, and the unemployment rate was 17% and climbing.

Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, who had just returned from a trip to Venezuela, says those INF numbers are projections that turned out to be very wrong. Actual inflation was extremely high but the 482% projected was way off. It was actually 182%. The point being that the IMF numbers are not even close and so not reliable. Last year the IMF projected the economy for last year would shrink by 10% but it shrank by 5.7%. And the U.S. media further exaggerates the numbers because it’s “socialism”. They even were viciously critical of the economy when it was booming from 2003 to 2008.

Weisbrot said the U.S. has been working to topple the Venezuelan government for many years and as an example in March of 2016 Obama announced sanctions againt Venezuela, saying that they presented “an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security of the U.S.” The corporate U.S. media didn’t bother to ask how that could be so Obama never had to explain that bit of contrived thinking. But it succeeded in persuading banks to refuse to extend further loans to Venezuela.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp4Q9KI_kjU
Weisbrot cites increased Trump sanctions that threaten to destroy Venezuela’s oil industry and the economy with it. Even the Venezuelan opposition is against the sanctions. So the threat to their economy is coming from the U.S., not Venezuela or “socialism”.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9AcrvknLEU
Opposition in Venezuela has always been supported by US A.I.D. and The National Endowment for Democracy with milions and millions of taxpayer dollars.
Obama allocated $5.5 million to fund opposition.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXcD-9Fkvg
American lawyer, Eva Golinger, spent 3 years studying our role in the development of the Venezuelan crisis. She used the FOIA to access government data. The documents she obtained showed that the U.S. government knew all about the 2002 coup that was to occur against Chavez two days before it happened. The documents showed that the CIA identified Chavez and 10 others to be arrested. A document said “to provoke military action, the plotters may try to exploit unrest stemming from opposition demonstrations slated for later this month”.

Two hours before protesters were shot by rooftop snipers, an army officer representing military forces that overthrew Chavez recorded a statement for release in which he said that Chavez had snipers kill 6 people. Chavez was captured and a corporate giant, Pedro Carmona was installed as President. Dispite knowing what would happen beforehand and even making recommendations on whom to arrest including Chavez, Ari Fleischer said in a quick press conference “we know that the action encouraged by the Chavez government provoked this crisis. The results of these events are now that President Chavez has resigned the presidency.” The public announcement of this false information was part of the U.S. government’s role in the coup. Tens of thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets to demand Chavez’s safe return and soldiers still loyal to Chavez retook the palace and the coup crumbled within 48 hours.

Eva’s investigation uncovered a money trail from Washington to key organizations and individuals involved in the coup. She found that in the months before the coup, Washington had given millions of dollars to Chavezes opponents.

The U.S. claims they want “democracy” in Venezuela, but while Chavez was in jail, Carmona was busy dissolving the parliament and the courts leaving him free to rule by decree. Just 5 months before, Carmona had visited Washington as a guest of the State Department. A cable from the U.S. Embassy in Caracas referred to Carmona and his collegues as “influential business leaders who have consistently played a critical role in advancing U.S. commercial interests in Venezuela.” Another one said Carmona was “the right man at the right time” for Venezuela.

After Chavez was returned to power, the State Department sent instructions to the U.S. Embassy in Venezuela, saying “if asked ‘was the United States involved in the attempt to remove Chavez from power?” the answer was to be “absolutely not”.

Golinger’s research also uncovered documentation showing that Washington also backed disgruntled elements within the Venezuelan Armed Forces.

Also see For a democratic, revolutionary and socialist solution to the Venezuelan crisis | Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal

and . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=699x0CpKJMY
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Old February 19th, 2018, 02:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kode View Post
Venezuela has been a legitimate attempt to create a socialist country. However, it has long been the victim of some of the most corrupt, insidious, underhanded attacks of all types from all sides on all aspects of their system by the U.S.

<snip for Bandwidth>

and . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=699x0CpKJMY
You fail to mention what I think is the most important point. Having two dictators in a row that may have started out as having good intentions but both were incredibly stupid and ineffective. Plus they both are/were power hungry to the detriment of their peoples.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 02:16 PM   #13
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You fail to mention what I think is the most important point. Having two dictators in a row that may have started out as having good intentions but both were incredibly stupid and ineffective. Plus they both are/were power hungry to the detriment of their peoples.
But without an in-depth study of that history, realize that all you have on it is U.S. propaganda that is only intended to make the situation look terrible. Now, if you were to go there and spend some time talking to the people, you might get a different story.

In the meantime if you check the links I provided and see what Mark and Eva say, you'll see support for what I said.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 02:38 PM   #14
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But without an in-depth study of that history, realize that all you have on it is U.S. propaganda that is only intended to make the situation look terrible. Now, if you were to go there and spend some time talking to the people, you might get a different story.

In the meantime if you check the links I provided and see what Mark and Eva say, you'll see support for what I said.
Wrong. Most of the news and op-eds I read on Venezuela come from those twin bastions of socialist commie bastard pinko degenerates in Canada and the UK.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 02:46 PM   #15
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Wrong. Most of the news and op-eds I read on Venezuela come from those twin bastions of socialist commie bastard pinko degenerates in Canada and the UK.
Well then, by all means post a couple of links so I can get the same straight skinny.
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