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Old November 2nd, 2017, 09:44 AM   #11
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Well, there's more versions of capitalism than the kind old Ludwig wrote about almost 100 years ago! Since Adolph was not only a supreme leader of Germany's political structure/but also enriched himself personally...effectively becoming an oligarch also(western historians never seem to ask how he got his opulent mansions!), even Germany's and likely most fascist states are oligarchies which require full cooperation of the business leaders...which is usually an easy assignment if they feel sufficiently rewarded by their political alliance. What was different about the fascist-run capitalist systems in Europe in the 1930's and most of what we have today, is a simple matter of who's driving! Today, is Donald Trump really in control of the United States of Goldmann Sachs? There seem to be many reasons to think not...certainly if they get powers behind the scenes to impeach and remove Trump for a more compliant and palatable candidate(Mike Pence)it would be a clear sign that Wall Street and the globalist business hierarchy are showing that they have the real power! In America...as with the rest of the western satellites, real power is exerted by those in control of finance and central banks.

Was Nazism socialistic..as another bullshit thread on the board contends? NO! It may have started as the "National Socialist Party," but the Nazis were an anti-communist party from their beginning. An obvious sign of their intentions was they claimed to be a worker's party but were against unions. Hitler like Mussolini, claimed there was a "third way" between communism and capitalism; but as soon as they took over, the first thing they did was purge union organizers and then members from the Nazi Party and their irregular brown shirt militia. They staged a Reichstag Fire to blame on the communists to justify arresting, imprisoning and executing Marxist leaders and academics.......next!

Is the inverted model of capitalism-corporations, banking and finance mostly acting on short term interests and goals a better system than state-planned capitalism of Communist/Capitalist China? It just happens that yesterday I came across an article on one of those ignored long term problems that nobody wants to talk about: resource scarcities, especially in rare earth minerals and metals.

It seems that the reason China has a near global monopoly today on rare earths is because they started planning for the shift to electronics and high tech 20 or 30 years ago and made sure they had resources lined up that would be needed further off in the future. So, in the following article about the problem Elon Musk and American and European enthusiasts are going to have filling their roads with electric cars for example, if the US, England and other players try to follow those projected plans of electrification, they got a huge problem trying to access the materials! China doesn't have it all figured out..cause a lot depends on how these technologies change and develop in the future; but right now, they're way ahead of the game:

Electric Batteries as a Case Study in US Magical Thinking vs. Chinese Vertical Integration
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017...tegration.html

I'm not much more of a fan of state-planned capitalist development any more than the chaotic, short term, avaricious kind we have here, but if we're just comparing capitalist systems, von Mises and his great ideas are a thing of the past! A past when resources supplies were much greater/ and resource demands much less than today!

Last edited by right to left; November 2nd, 2017 at 09:48 AM.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 11:20 AM   #12
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Meaning what, comrade?
Meaning, some folks actually enjoy a life free of debt, free of car insurance, life insurance, medical insurance, and homeowners insurance. Some like to know that if they have good grades, they can attend college.

However, merely posing the simple minded question of either capitalism or socialism unfortunately reveals just about all the brain power most citizens' can muster even when their intellect is fully engaged.

These mental midgets usually are reduced to sputtering "Socialism bad, bad, BAD, capitalism good, good, GOOD," and they'll vote for anyone who tells them they're right.

Humankind has wasted far too many resources and far too many lives playing like one system or the other is perfect just as it is.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 11:29 AM   #13
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Meaning, some folks actually enjoy a life free of debt, free of car insurance, life insurance, medical insurance, and homeowners insurance. Some like to know that if they have good grades, they can attend college.

However, merely posing the simple minded question of either capitalism or socialism unfortunately reveals just about all the brain power most citizens' can muster even when their intellect is fully engaged.

These mental midgets usually are reduced to sputtering "Socialism bad, bad, BAD, capitalism good, good, GOOD," and they'll vote for anyone who tells them they're right.

Humankind has wasted far too many resources and far too many lives playing like one system or the other is perfect just as it is.
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Meaning, some folks actually enjoy a life free of debt, free of car insurance, life insurance, medical insurance, and homeowners insurance. Some like to know that if they have good grades, they can attend college.
Thank you comrade for your thoughtful insight. That is why we must now more than ever push back against this Fascist Republican nationalism. We must embrace a true Communist State where we can be free from all those things. We must give our burdens to the state and swear allegiance to the state. Once this is done, a true Communist nation can be born, with each according to their need the law of the land.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 11:38 AM   #14
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Was Nazism socialistic..as another bullshit thread on the board contends? NO! It may have started as the "National Socialist Party," but the Nazis were an anti-communist party from their beginning. An obvious sign of their intentions was they claimed to be a worker's party but were against unions. Hitler like Mussolini, claimed there was a "third way" between communism and capitalism; but as soon as they took over, the first thing they did was purge union organizers and then members from the Nazi Party and their irregular brown shirt militia. They staged a Reichstag Fire to blame on the communists to justify arresting, imprisoning and executing Marxist leaders and academics.......next!
One must understand why Hitler used Socialism the way he did. The Treaty of Versailles (with good reason) made it nearly impossible for Germany to recover economically. Their economy was toast and the people were (as always) the ones hurting the most. Hitler took that angst and told the people what they wanted to hear and they gladly ceded power to him. The question NOBODY ever asks is how was Hitler able to do things he did with infrastructure and the rearming of Germany. He did it underground but the question remains....where did he get the money? The Central Banks of course. You had the same Banks funding all sides of the same war!!!

The Americans who funded Hitler, Nazis, German economic miracle, and World War II

https://www.sott.net/article/298259-...d-World-War-II

The Bush family was greatly involved in all of this and this is also where the Dulles family entered the scene. That family alone (the Dulles) had more influence in the United States from WWII to the 60's. It gave us the CIA.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 11:43 AM   #15
Put some ice on that
 
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Meaning, some folks actually enjoy a life free of debt, free of car insurance, life insurance, medical insurance, and homeowners insurance. Some like to know that if they have good grades, they can attend college.

However, merely posing the simple minded question of either capitalism or socialism unfortunately reveals just about all the brain power most citizens' can muster even when their intellect is fully engaged.

These mental midgets usually are reduced to sputtering "Socialism bad, bad, BAD, capitalism good, good, GOOD," and they'll vote for anyone who tells them they're right.

Humankind has wasted far too many resources and far too many lives playing like one system or the other is perfect just as it is.


You forget to log out and log back in as Camelot.


Anyways.

That is a nice post. What does it have to to w/ the Vietnamese?
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 12:43 PM   #16
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You forget to log out and log back in as Camelot.


Anyways.

That is a nice post. What does it have to to w/ the Vietnamese?
You're such a damned flaming, baiting troll. You simply cannot communicate without laying down a dig.

"The Vietnamese" is an off-topic factoid, having nothing to do with "Nazi capitalism."

Thanks for providing an example of a person who believe the economic choices we face are binary: Capitalism or Communism. Sorry pumpkin, that's a false dichotomy.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 12:51 PM   #17
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The thing to remember about the Nazis is, they were not that interested in economics, their thing was race.
They would use whatever economic theory they felt was best to further their racial agenda.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 01:41 PM   #18
Put some ice on that
 
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You're such a damned flaming, baiting troll. You simply cannot communicate without laying down a dig.

"The Vietnamese" is an off-topic factoid, having nothing to do with "Nazi capitalism."

Thanks for providing an example of a person who believe the economic choices we face are binary: Capitalism or Communism. Sorry pumpkin, that's a false dichotomy.
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Hitler was a bit of a scar on the Marxists and socialists but all of communism took a bit of a hit and they were forced to regroup and rebrand. They have been successful in distancing themselves from Hitler and hiding the atrocities of Russia, Cambodia, Vietnam and North Korea. It amazes me that in just a generation they have already brought socialism face first into the.public eye. Even as Venezuela crumbles right before ouf eyes people are stupid enough to fall for it.

Now i can get the millennials but people who were alive when the wall came down, when we actually had refugees who were escaping communist nations. Some of my best friends as a kids parents escaped from those places. Go to a Cambodian or Vietnamese community and ask them how they feel about communism. They will fill in anyone who cares to know.

Very sad how easily people forget
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Unless that Vietnamese community is in Vietnam, you might get different answers than you were expecting there.
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
Meaning what, comrade?
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Meaning, some folks actually enjoy a life free of debt, free of car insurance, life insurance, medical insurance, and homeowners insurance. Some like to know that if they have good grades, they can attend college.

However, merely posing the simple minded question of either capitalism or socialism unfortunately reveals just about all the brain power most citizens' can muster even when their intellect is fully engaged.

These mental midgets usually are reduced to sputtering "Socialism bad, bad, BAD, capitalism good, good, GOOD," and they'll vote for anyone who tells them they're right.

Humankind has wasted far too many resources and far too many lives playing like one system or the other is perfect just as it is.


Try and follow along. If you are going to jump in the middle of a conversation it is recommended to read all of the posts.


But that's OK. Just go ahead and use your power+privilege to hurl unsubstantiated insults. Would that count as your postmodernist racism.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 06:42 PM   #19
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Meaning what, comrade?
If you spoke with Vietnamese in Vietnam, they would be proud of kicking out the foreign armies that tried to occupy Vietnam.
And happy with the progress they are making.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 06:48 PM   #20
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If you spoke with Vietnamese in Vietnam, they would be proud of kicking out the foreign armies that tried to occupy Vietnam.
And happy with the progress they are making.
Do you see the irony of the fact that the country the US didn't have a chance to nation build in is one of the most happy, economically vibrant countries in the region?
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