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Old September 18th, 2016, 01:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The joint invasion of Poland by Germany and Russia began, "officially," WWII.
The Invasion of Poland, also known as the September Campaign, or the 1939 Defensive War in Poland (Polish: Kampania wrześniowa or Wojna obronna 1939 roku), and alternatively the Poland Campaign (German: Polenfeldzug) or Fall Weiss in Germany (Case White), was a joint invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany, the Free City of Danzig, the Soviet Union, and a small Slovak contingent, that marked the beginning of World War II in Europe. The German invasion began on 1 September 1939, one week after the signing of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, while the Soviet invasion commenced on 17 September following the Molotov-Tōgō agreement that terminated the Russian and Japanese hostilities in the east on 16 September. The campaign ended on 6 October with Germany and the Soviet Union dividing and annexing the whole of Poland under the terms of the German-Soviet Frontier Treaty.
You have gaps and fantasies in your historical knowledge. The German invasion of Russia, Operation Barbarossa, commenced on June 22, 1941. Stalin had no particular beef with Germany, but Hitler plainly stated in Mein Kampf that he intended to destroy the Soviet Union. Russia and Germany never were true allies.
If Germany invaded Poland on Sept. 1 and Russia invaded on Sept 17, that isn't what I would call a combined invasion. And it was enough to get war declared on Germany and not Russia. Also, as I said, "if" there was a agreement between Germany and Russia to divide Poland between them, it seems most logical and likely that an agreement was also reached to attack it simultaneously. So war wouldn't be declared on one particular country for doing so. Maybe such an agreement was reached. But the Russians delayed and left Germany holding the bag. If that is what happened, it's no wonder that the allies kept it secret.

Next, Stalin had a beef with everybody. Also, I didn't make the thing up about Russia being scheduled to invade Germany three weeks after Germany invaded. But Hitler probably got wind of it and attacked first. Also, as I said, there was at least one book written about it. But the Russian forces were arrayed for attack. Not defense. So when Germany invaded, he caught the Russian forces flat footed and cleaned their clocks. Whole armies were defeated and captured.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 01:51 PM   #42
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When Arch-Duke Ferdinand was assassinated by the Serbian anarchist started WW1. WW2 was a direct result of the Treaty of Versailles immediately following WW1. It only took one anarchist to start both World Wars.
The anarchist didn't write the Treaty of Versailles for the defeated Germans to sign.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 01:55 PM   #43
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It was cutting off Japan's oil that made them make the fatal mistake of attacking us.
Japan has ZERO oil fields and must import ALL of its oil, back then almost all of it from the U.S.
The U.S, Dutch, French, Brits and Australians were no more going to let Japan take over Asia than the Allies were going to let Germany over-run all of Europe.
The Japanese probably didn't like the oil embargo. Most likely because it would have hindered their ability to wage war in Manchuria. But it wasn't in itself a reason to attack the U.S. Besides, doing so only increased any U.S. embargo.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 01:58 PM   #44
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Then the Alaska Pipeline was built which I thought was a good idea at the time. Come to find out that more than 90% of the pipeline oil goes to Japan and not the United States. Japan should rebuild its military and invade south east Asia again and take out the South China Sea oil rather than our oil.
I couldn't say such stupidity was impossible. But it is easier for japan to get its oil from Alaska than it is from the U.S. Alaska is much closer to them.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 02:11 PM   #45
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My grand parents and great grand parents (father's side)were Poles and Ukrainians..... and I am damn sure they weren't killing Germans....They came here to escape the damned Commies....
Well if their sympathies laid with Poland, why should I believe their stories that Poles weren't killing ethnic Germans. Which in turn was why Germany invaded Poland. You may have been right about the "Bloody Sunday" event happening just after Germany invaded Poland. But that doesn't mean that ethnic Germans weren't being killed before the invasion.

On another topic, isn't it interesting that after both Germany and Russia took over Poland, Russia executed around 22,000 Poles in the Kaytn massacre. But the Germans didn't execute their POW's. Now you might think that if the Pols had been murdering ethnic Germans before they invaded, the Germans wouldn't have been so merciful. But you have to understand that Germany was a much more civilized and "Western" country than Russia was.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 03:23 PM   #46
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You can keep denying the truth. But sooner or later, something will sink in.
Apparently it hasn't sunk into you yet.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 03:56 PM   #47
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Apparently it hasn't sunk into you yet.
Did I say something that you disagree with? I am willing to debate. Let's see what will sink in where.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 04:06 PM   #48
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Did I say something that you disagree with? I am willing to debate. Let's see what will sink in where.
WW2 would not have started if Hitler wasn't rejected from a prestigious art school. I looked at some of Hitler's paintings and thought them good art of buildings. Had Hitler been given a chance to improve his artwork then who knows what would have happened.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #49
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WW2 would not have started if Hitler wasn't rejected from a prestigious art school. I looked at some of Hitler's paintings and thought them good art of buildings. Had Hitler been given a chance to improve his artwork then who knows what would have happened.
Just as history written by the victors puts it. But who knows what would have happened if Hitler became an artist instead. At the time that Hitler got elected, Germans were still needing a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread with. The Bolsheviks were still in power in Russia. Who knows. Without Hitler, maybe Germany would have went commie. And metaphorically speaking, we would all be speaking Russian now.
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Old September 18th, 2016, 04:48 PM   #50
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The Japanese probably didn't like the oil embargo. Most likely because it would have hindered their ability to wage war in Manchuria. But it wasn't in itself a reason to attack the U.S. Besides, doing so only increased any U.S. embargo.
No shit they did not like it.
It simply does not matter what WE think is a good reason. What matters is what the Japanese military and govt. thought was a good reason at the time.
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