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Old March 12th, 2018, 12:41 AM   #151
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@Marus & locke

Locke clearly over-reached for a straw-man since he is unable to provide an actual instance in which an invasion attempt was visited upon the US
1. My comment about the War of 1812 was a joke. You people then went on to insult my countryís history.

2. Having never been invaded before does not mean you cannot be invaded. Sparta had never been invaded before the Roman invasion of Greece, but then was destroyed forever. The same can be said of Carthage.

3. Invasion is not the only way national security can be threatened. Non-conventional means such as terrorism, CBRN attacks, economic and cyber warfare can do incredible damage to a country.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 01:00 AM   #152
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1. My comment about the War of 1812 was a joke. You people then went on to insult my country’s history.

2. Having never been invaded before does not mean you cannot be invaded. Sparta had never been invaded before the Roman invasion of Greece, but then was destroyed forever. The same can be said of Carthage.

3. Invasion is not the only way national security can be threatened. Non-conventional means such as terrorism, CBRN attacks, economic and cyber warfare can do incredible damage to a country.
@locke

Again, you are promoting a 'Captain America' view of the military.

The claims you are making are in line with the hyper-expansion of the Monroe Doctrine combined with Manifest Destiny. Now, if there is in fact a clear case where intervention may be of net benefit, then one is totake it to the International body (i.e. the UN) in order to vote to see the ruling of the World on the matter, not just one particular nation.

Also, have you considered motivating factors such as paranoia, hysteria, hegemony?
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Old March 12th, 2018, 05:37 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by locke23 View Post
1. My comment about the War of 1812 was a joke. You people then went on to insult my countryís history.

2. Having never been invaded before does not mean you cannot be invaded. Sparta had never been invaded before the Roman invasion of Greece, but then was destroyed forever. The same can be said of Carthage.

3. Invasion is not the only way national security can be threatened. Non-conventional means such as terrorism, CBRN attacks, economic and cyber warfare can do incredible damage to a country.
The Persians were before the Romans. They also fought Athens a lot.

Yeah, these idiots will go crazy on you. No worries, those of us with more than 3 living brain cells could tell you were joking about 1812
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Old March 12th, 2018, 06:54 AM   #154
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@locke

Again, you are promoting a 'Captain America' view of the military.

The claims you are making are in line with the hyper-expansion of the Monroe Doctrine combined with Manifest Destiny. Now, if there is in fact a clear case where intervention may be of net benefit, then one is totake it to the International body (i.e. the UN) in order to vote to see the ruling of the World on the matter, not just one particular nation.

Also, have you considered motivating factors such as paranoia, hysteria, hegemony?
1. The UN Security Council permanent members China and Russia can, and do, veto anything that could increase rival statesí power and/or decrease theirs.

2. You canít tell me that you donít think the principles of liberty and democracy arenít what is morally right, what the people usually want and the most effective form a society can take.

3. Those are things we can control, manipulate and scrutinize. Plus, we can seek to counter such tendencies by aggressive groups, state or non state. But we canít get that opportunity we decide itís never okay to act. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty. Thatís the sad truth of the real world, not the liberal fantasy.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 06:56 AM   #155
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The Persians were before the Romans. They also fought Athens a lot.

Yeah, these idiots will go crazy on you. No worries, those of us with more than 3 living brain cells could tell you were joking about 1812
Except the Persian forces never made it to core Spartan territory before being defeated :P
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Old March 12th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #156
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Except the Persian forces never made it to core Spartan territory before being defeated :P
Alexander the Great burned Persepolis to the ground and that ended Persian domination. Darius the Great was King of Persia at the time and his famous immortals could not stop Alexander. Xerses was the King of Persia who fought the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopile.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 07:57 AM   #157
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@locke

This is all a conversation for a separate Thread, though to be brief;

(A) The way the UN is structured does not seriously take into account the 'vote' of most of the worlds nations--intentionally so, as they overwhelmingly disagree with US actions which are often in violation of international law

(B ) 'Democracy' is not all the intent. In some cases, the form of pseudo-Democracy we operate on is meant to be established, in others it is a complete sham purposed to center US control/influence of the region (e.g. recall US intervention into Latin America, for instance Haiti). Furthermore, the US has made countless strikes against 'Democracy' in other nations

(C) I certainly can say the form of pseudo-Democracy we have is not superior, nor is it our 'obligation' to demand it be the mode of political formation the rest of the world follows--it shouldn't even be ours. Generally speaking, I view Direct Democracy (i.e. Real Democracy) to work very well when the group involved is of similar abilities, however when the range of abilities of the group varies significantly then Meritocracy becomes the superior system.

(D) You have just asserted 'liberal', though Right-Wing Libertarians maintain heavy overlap with the views presented here, as well as many 'veterans for peace' organizations, books, ect

Hence, I think you are operating on a number of false premises, distortions, and are repeating popular shibboleths with very little self-reflection into the truth/false value of the statements.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 08:13 AM   #158
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@locke

This is all a conversation for a separate Thread, though to be brief;

(A) The way the UN is structured does not seriously take into account the 'vote' of most of the worlds nations--intentionally so, as they overwhelmingly disagree with US actions which are often in violation of international law

(B ) 'Democracy' is not all the intent. In some cases, the form of pseudo-Democracy we operate on is meant to be established, in others it is a complete sham purposed to center US control/influence of the region (e.g. recall US intervention into Latin America, for instance Haiti). Furthermore, the US has made countless strikes against 'Democracy' in other nations

(C) I certainly can say the form of pseudo-Democracy we have is not superior, nor is it our 'obligation' to demand it be the mode of political formation the rest of the world follows--it shouldn't even be ours. Generally speaking, I view Direct Democracy (i.e. Real Democracy) to work very well when the group involved is of similar abilities, however when the range of abilities of the group varies significantly then Meritocracy becomes the superior system.

(D) You have just asserted 'liberal', though Right-Wing Libertarians maintain heavy overlap with the views presented here, as well as many 'veterans for peace' organizations, books, ect

Hence, I think you are operating on a number of false premises, distortions, and are repeating popular shibboleths with very little self-reflection into the truth/false value of the statements.
Thanks for teaching me a new word, Shibboleth. I was thinking it should be spelled shibbolith because lith means stone as in carved in stone.
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Old March 12th, 2018, 09:50 AM   #159
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Except the Persian forces never made it to core Spartan territory before being defeated :P
True, and you can thank Poseidon for that
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Old March 16th, 2018, 10:23 PM   #160
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Are you sure youíre from Canada b/c thereís no militarism going on here.
Maybe militarism in Canada doesn't reach US levels, but since Harper came along, it's much more prominent than it ever was in the past...at least since WWII.
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The politicians and public donít give a shit about us or our veterans. Not in terms of funding, nor in terms of support.
They like having a "highway of heroes" procession for those who've died, but not the costs of care for disabled veterans...doesn't sound different than the news from US veterans.
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Actually, several polls done in Afghanistan over the years showed that over 80% of the population despised the Taliban far more than foreign troops and their government.
I'd like to see those polls and how they were conducted!
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Also, because we invaded Afghanistan, millions of people are now free from Taliban rule, the area is no longer a base for international jihadism and the regional living conditions have jumped to the highest its ever seen in its history.
That isn't what I'm reading of late:

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Taliban fighters, whom US-led forces spent billions of dollars trying to defeat, are now openly active in 70% of Afghanistan, a BBC study has found.

Months of research across the country shows that the Taliban now control or threaten much more territory than when foreign combat troops left in 2014.

The Afghan government played down the report, saying it controls most areas.

But recent attacks claimed by Taliban and Islamic State group militants have killed scores in Kabul and elsewhere.
Taliban threaten 70% of Afghanistan, BBC finds - BBC News
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