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Old December 7th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
they should have TAKEN the oil supply with ground forces not destroy it. see my previous post.

If I was the AXIS Commander I Japan would have invaded and taken Hawai'i

Hitler would have followed through with Barbarosa and taken the UK.

Hitler was months from getting the Bomb when Germany Fell, Then this would have opened the door to taking the USSR. the East coast of the US.

US would be tied up defending the west coast defending Alaska, Canada would have been forced to defend the western provences


and we would be living "The man in the High Castle"
If Japan had the forces to take Hawaii, they would have, they didn't.

Hitler was never going to get the bomb, German scientists had misread an experimental result by a factor of 10, that changed the critical mass calculation by a factor of a thousand, the German nuclear research effort was contained in one building with a budget of 800,000 marks/year, because they had determined that an atomic bomb would take hundreds of kilos of enriched uranium, they didn't have the resources, no one did by their calculation, and if you built a bomb, it would be the size of a building.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 05:36 PM   #32
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If Japan had the forces to take Hawaii, they would have, they didn't.

Hitler was never going to get the bomb, German scientists had misread an experimental result by a factor of 10, that changed the critical mass calculation by a factor of a thousand, the German nuclear research effort was contained in one building with a budget of 800,000 marks/year, because they had determined that an atomic bomb would take hundreds of kilos of enriched uranium, they didn't have the resources, no one did by their calculation, and if you built a bomb, it would be the size of a building.
.They had the forces, Admiral Yamamoto said if you attack better take the Island or We will awaken as sleeping giant, and he will be at our door.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #33
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.They had the forces, Admiral Yamamoto said if you attack better take the Island or We will awaken as sleeping giant, and he will be at our door.
But unlike you, they didn't think they had the forces to take Hawaii.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #34
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I have often wondered what would have happened if the people at the Japanese Embassy had been better typists and the Japanese declaration of war had been delivered prior to the attack on Pearl, as was the original intent.
Sure, we would have STILL declared war obviously. But would the sheer hatred on our side been so complete, so vicious?
The slow typing part is a myth that was further entrenched by Hollywood (not you, the US movie industry).

Japanese Ambassador Kichisaburo Nomura, was attending a funeral for Colonel Shinjo. The funeral was meant to be a quick ceremony, but the priest giving the sermon dragged on and on and it took two hours before it was over. The original appointment with Hull timed to be immediately after the funeral but was postponed due to a long-winded Japanese Shinto priest that droned on and on...........
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Old December 7th, 2017, 06:55 PM   #35
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A big negative for the Japanese was that the Air Craft Carriers..Enterprise, Yorktown and Lexington were not at Pearl when the Japanese attacked... The Battleships would prove to be an obsolete weapons system as the War wore on.. So their damage did not mean much...

2nd major mistake was that the Japanese withdrew and did not make a 2nd attack and take out the Navy's oil storage tanks on Ford Island....Either of these would have made a drastic change in the War in the Pacific... Probably forcing the USA to surrender the Philippines, the Western Pacific and Leaving Australia to the mercy of the Japanese...
You mean the 3rd attack. Without the knowledge to the location of the American carriers coupled with much heavier losses of aircraft and crew by the IJN during the second attack, they had to withdraw in order to protect the fleet.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 07:03 PM   #36
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But resupplying Pearl Harbor would have taken a while, and naval operations around Pearl Harbor would have been greatly curtailed, and Japanese subs and surface vessels would have played havoc on the tankers trying to resupply Pearl.
No they wouldn't. You're thinking in terms of German and applying it to the Japanese. German Kriegsmarine focused on shipping, Imperial Japanese Navy, focused on fighting the enemy's warships. A Japanese submarine captain would find more honor and prestige in fighting an enemy torpedo boat than to sink an oil tanker.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #37
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Perhaps. But of all the nations in the world, the UK and Portugal have been great friends and allies longer than they have with any other nations. Over 200 years at least. IIRC?
The Anglo-Portuguese alliance dates back to 1386 with the signing of the Treaty of Windsor, a mere 731 years
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Old December 8th, 2017, 12:07 AM   #38
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.They had the forces, Admiral Yamamoto said if you attack better take the Island or We will awaken as sleeping giant, and he will be at our door.
While Admiral Yamamoto is claimed (there is no historical evidence for it) to have said "I fear we have woken a sleeping giant" he was actually referring to the fact that the declaration of war was delivered after the attack had started. He took the view that this would so anger the USA that no matter the victories the Japanese won in the next few months the US would never seek peace terms, and Yamamoto knew that Japan had to win quickly or face certain defeat.
Also, the plan to launch the carrier raid on Pearl Harbor was Yamamoto's, he was the one who believed it would work, as the Japanese naval staff thought even this was beyond their navy's capabilities.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 12:22 AM   #39
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There mistake was not putting a land force on the Hawai'ian Islands

if they had they would have not only held the islands, they would have control over the fleet and could have savlaged the ships for their own warships. leaving the west coast of the US totally open to naval attacks.

This would have forced the US to take a Japan First instead of taking Europe first,
There was never any plan to take these islands in the run up to the December 1941 attack. The only time an invasion was suggested was in late 1942 if the attack on Midway had been a complete success.
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UK would have fell, then the Germans would have only had a one front war against the USSR.
How would the UK have fallen ?
The Germans hadn't managed it so far and the British forces on the island were far stronger than they were in 1940.

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this would have given the Germans time to Develop the bomb,
As has already been pointed out, German research on building a bomb was flawed, the British were far closer to building a bomb than they were. In the end Germany effectively stopped working on a bomb in 1943 after their top scientists had informed them that development of a practical weapon was so far away it would of be no help to them in the present war.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 12:32 AM   #40
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Of course the eternal Anglo doesn't believe in allies.
As Churchill once said, “There is only one thing worse than fighting with allies, and that is fighting without them”.
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