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Old May 25th, 2018, 04:19 PM   #21
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I think that is a bit excessive but I agree with Camelot and you about these countries not being good allies and the blood being on US hands.

Communication must be kept open because that is the only chance of resolving anything with reason. Communication-based on principles has a chance, but catering to despots is always a bad deal, and Israel's rulers have been as despotic as Saudi Arabia rulers, and I think the present ruler of the US is as despotic as the others, although there are restrictions put on him.
The worst kept secret of the 20th century is that the US chose despots and dictators for allies in developing nations/not democratically elected governments that might not closely follow US goals and desires.

The Saud's couldn't be a more perfect example of this, since they've looted the underground wealth of Arabia, mostly for their private accounts and paying allies needed to keep the dynasty in power. I'm not sure if Iran's democracy functioning under the watchful eye of the ayatollahs qualifies as true democracy, but it's better than the Saud's hereditary rule of all regions and government departments in Arabia!

And I'll never consider Israel to be a functioning democracy either, since they keep half the population in a state of occupation with no rights!
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Old May 26th, 2018, 04:21 AM   #22
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The 'Alliance' with Saudi Arabia made by western countries is obviously a matter of mutual profit by the rich and crooked, so it will eventually be seen off. Much nastier is the deal with Nazi 'Israel', where 'the West' supports racist mass-murdering colonialists under the illusion that they are somehow the people Hitler murdered brought back. The current Zionist witch-hunt in the Labour Party is a very ugly attempt to create the equivalent of AIPAC here, and it is doing Jewish people no good at all.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 06:52 AM   #23
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I have the TV on in the background, and I've been watching one fucking panel of Dem apologists and strategists after another talking down the likelihood of a successful peace summit between Trump and Kim.

I know progressive reformers have made great strides in overthrowing the DCCC-picked plutocrats running for election at all levels of government this month(something Dem apologists here seem to avoid talking about), but considering that the Dems are every bit as much a War Party as the Republicans now and are horrified by the prospects of peace breaking out....anywhere in the world, I have to ask: what is the good of this foul, corrupt, manipulative party?

There are so many voters overturning the Democrat status quo now in spite of the avalanche of anti-progressive/pro-corporate propaganda, surely the time is right to just abandon this waste dump and get behind the DSA or the Green Party or some other third party that most independents can agree upon will work for the policies and goals that the majority of people want...including world peace and an end to the threat of nuclear war!
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Old May 26th, 2018, 06:55 AM   #24
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The 'Alliance' with Saudi Arabia made by western countries is obviously a matter of mutual profit by the rich and crooked, so it will eventually be seen off. Much nastier is the deal with Nazi 'Israel', where 'the West' supports racist mass-murdering colonialists under the illusion that they are somehow the people Hitler murdered brought back. The current Zionist witch-hunt in the Labour Party is a very ugly attempt to create the equivalent of AIPAC here, and it is doing Jewish people no good at all.
Yes, and about that Labour Party in England, that I wish others here would have noticed...it's shameful that Corbyn of all people wouldn't stand behind his friend-former London Mayor-Ken Livingstone..who's been targeted and smeared as "antisemetic" for his support for BDS and opposition to zionism. Corbyn is showing on the other side of the Atlantic how hard it is to actually change existing parties that still have rats working within them!
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Old May 26th, 2018, 07:03 AM   #25
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I didn't expect such a well-informed reply. I wasn't even thinking of the conflict between the ruling family and the masses. That is a complexity to consider but I do not know enough. All I know is the warnings of a geologist who pointed out these Arab nations have only one resource, oil, and that is finite. When Saudi Arabia's oil is gone, they will not be able to maintain a high standard of living and the already restless masses will rebel. Backing the royal family is like backing a despot anywhere else.
Nobody knows exactly what the Saudis have in reserve right now, because everything connected with oil reserves and exploration is tightly controlled by their national oil company - ARAMCO. Foreign experts and consultants to ARAMCO are held to ironclad nondisclosure agreements that threaten death for revealing classified information.

Nevertheless, it has been widely assumed..just based on external evidence: the increasing amount of hot water and steam being pumped into major Saudi producing wells, the decision to develop the eastern Arabian reserves that are located under Shia territories...which have required an almost totally unmentioned Saudi war crime of expulsion, killing and imprisoning Shias to force them out and off these lands so Saud oilgrabbers can take the oil out of the ground without risks of terrorism or militant actions. And then there's the hurried strategy that a lot of the financial experts consider a pipedream...shifting the Saud economy from oil to living off trust fund wealth held mainly by western banking interests.

What the Saud's and the lesser monarchs of the Gulf have done is suck the main natural resource out of the ground and provide minimal benefits for their people, and all of these hideous regimes have been US and western allies over the decades who loudly proclaim their love for democracy!
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Old May 26th, 2018, 10:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
I have the TV on in the background, and I've been watching one fucking panel of Dem apologists and strategists after another talking down the likelihood of a successful peace summit between Trump and Kim.

I know progressive reformers have made great strides in overthrowing the DCCC-picked plutocrats running for election at all levels of government this month(something Dem apologists here seem to avoid talking about), but considering that the Dems are every bit as much a War Party as the Republicans now and are horrified by the prospects of peace breaking out....anywhere in the world, I have to ask: what is the good of this foul, corrupt, manipulative party?

There are so many voters overturning the Democrat status quo now in spite of the avalanche of anti-progressive/pro-corporate propaganda, surely the time is right to just abandon this waste dump and get behind the DSA or the Green Party or some other third party that most independents can agree upon will work for the policies and goals that the majority of people want...including world peace and an end to the threat of nuclear war!
What are the odds the Israelis will give up their nukes? Pakistan? India? Hell, Russia or China?

I'm not sticking up for the Dems. I am sticking up for geopolitical reality.

Maybe I read you wrong RTL, but you come across as if only the US would be peaceful, the world would follow suit. That's fantasy imo.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 11:07 AM   #27
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What are the odds the Israelis will give up their nukes? Pakistan? India? Hell, Russia or China?

I'm not sticking up for the Dems. I am sticking up for geopolitical reality.

Maybe I read you wrong RTL, but you come across as if only the US would be peaceful, the world would follow suit. That's fantasy imo.
And I'll also ask, what gives us the right to dictate to other nations what weapons they can and can't have ?? I don't like the idea of Iran or NK having weapons, but they are after all sovereign nations with the right to defend themselves.

We routinely violate national sovereignty and carry out military missions on foreign soil and air space. More than a few conservatives were shocked to find out Obama had launched no less than 26,000 bombs and missiles, mostly from drones on terrorist targets. Trump has tripled down on this number and leaves it largely to the military, with little civilian oversight, to decide who and where to kill.
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Old May 26th, 2018, 11:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
I have the TV on in the background, and I've been watching one fucking panel of Dem apologists and strategists after another talking down the likelihood of a successful peace summit between Trump and Kim.

I know progressive reformers have made great strides in overthrowing the DCCC-picked plutocrats running for election at all levels of government this month(something Dem apologists here seem to avoid talking about), but considering that the Dems are every bit as much a War Party as the Republicans now and are horrified by the prospects of peace breaking out....anywhere in the world, I have to ask: what is the good of this foul, corrupt, manipulative party?

There are so many voters overturning the Democrat status quo now in spite of the avalanche of anti-progressive/pro-corporate propaganda, surely the time is right to just abandon this waste dump and get behind the DSA or the Green Party or some other third party that most independents can agree upon will work for the policies and goals that the majority of people want...including world peace and an end to the threat of nuclear war!
Honestly believe the GOP apologists are any better ??

https://nowthisnews.com/videos/polit...th-north-korea
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Old May 27th, 2018, 03:09 AM   #29
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Yes, and about that Labour Party in England, that I wish others here would have noticed...it's shameful that Corbyn of all people wouldn't stand behind his friend-former London Mayor-Ken Livingstone..who's been targeted and smeared as "antisemetic" for his support for BDS and opposition to zionism. Corbyn is showing on the other side of the Atlantic how hard it is to actually change existing parties that still have rats working within them!
The Labour Party is UK wide, and is our Government here. I can't imagine what led Mr Corbyn to take up this feeble position!
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Old May 27th, 2018, 08:24 AM   #30
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It's always amazed me the way the USA cozied up to Saudi Arabia after 911. 15 of the 19 terrorists were Saudis, right?

Regarding Israel, the USA should cut them off financially and diplomatically until they abide by the treaties they are signatory to. Many of our problems in the Middle East come from the USA turning a blind eye to Israel's provocations while demanding strict observance of treaties from other nations (except ourselves, thanks to Trump).
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