Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Warfare

Warfare Warfare Military Forum - For topics and discussions related to combat and peace efforts


Thanks Tree44Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 27th, 2018, 08:48 AM   #31
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
What are the odds the Israelis will give up their nukes? Pakistan? India? Hell, Russia or China?

I'm not sticking up for the Dems. I am sticking up for geopolitical reality.
Israel is an adjunct of the American Empire. That's why they're a regional power in the Middle East and why they are the only nation that has been allowed to flagrantly violate every treaty and agreement on nuclear arms and nuclear proliferation! Israel didn't develop their estimated 100 to 400 nuclear warheads all by themselves...like North Korea apparently did..they had inside help from the US back in the late 50's and early 60's to develop their own clandestine program. With all the crap about Iran lately, NOBODY mentions the Israeli nuclear threat, nor their theft and proliferation of nuclear weapons technology: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uclear-arsenal
Quote:
Maybe I read you wrong RTL, but you come across as if only the US would be peaceful, the world would follow suit. That's fantasy imo.
Remember that term: "unipolar world?" The US manages the global banking and transnational trading world today for it's primary benefits, and Trump is stupid enough to tell nations that thought they were US allies (Britain, France, Canada etc.) that they're swimming in America's wake today, and will have to do whatever US policymakers tell them on trade and sanctions. Past administrations were smart and covert enough not to say this out loud, so I thank the Donald for putting all the dirty laundry of empire out there where everyone can see it now!

Now, when it comes to being peaceful...like it or not, today's wars are not happening by accident and if they originate in local hostilities, we can count on the CIA and a proliferation of duplicitous NGO's to foment unrest in desired targets for regime change. The proxy wars, regime changes, insurgency campaigns and terrorist attacks, are mostly originated in US policy objectives, and that's why the American Empire outspends every other nation on Earth by a mile and will spend whatever it costs its domestic economy to maintain military advantage.

Would Russia or China or possibly even India rise to the occasion to attempt to become the global hegemon if and when the US Empire collapses? I'm sure they will! But, until then, there is one supranational banking, money and trading regime that's backed by the force of US military power and that's the American Empire..so worry about the others when the time comes!
Thanks from Athena
right to left is offline  
Old May 27th, 2018, 08:57 AM   #32
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
It's always amazed me the way the USA cozied up to Saudi Arabia after 911. 15 of the 19 terrorists were Saudis, right?

Regarding Israel, the USA should cut them off financially and diplomatically until they abide by the treaties they are signatory to. Many of our problems in the Middle East come from the USA turning a blind eye to Israel's provocations while demanding strict observance of treaties from other nations (except ourselves, thanks to Trump).
Yes, but I doubt it will happen, since Israel's primary role is the weapons development and tactical training lab for new military and policing weapons and tactics. Everything from new helicopters to bombs to counter-insurgency tactics like blowing holes through walls instead of doors, were developed by the IDF in their campaigns in Palestinian refugee camps and cities, and they train US police forces and special military forces in their use and applications. So, I wouldn't expect Israel's "special relationship" with the US...and allies let's not forget..to end any time soon!
Thanks from Athena and GluteusMaximus
right to left is offline  
Old May 27th, 2018, 09:23 AM   #33
PragmaticBastard
 
GluteusMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Yes, but I doubt it will happen, since Israel's primary role is the weapons development and tactical training lab for new military and policing weapons and tactics. Everything from new helicopters to bombs to counter-insurgency tactics like blowing holes through walls instead of doors, were developed by the IDF in their campaigns in Palestinian refugee camps and cities, and they train US police forces and special military forces in their use and applications. So, I wouldn't expect Israel's "special relationship" with the US...and allies let's not forget..to end any time soon!
Good point that I didn't consider. We can consider Israel our "Spanish Civil War" for weapon testing. The Germans and Russians sure ironed out a lot of their military issues that way.
Thanks from right to left
GluteusMaximus is offline  
Old May 28th, 2018, 07:51 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
What are the odds the Israelis will give up their nukes? Pakistan? India? Hell, Russia or China?

I'm not sticking up for the Dems. I am sticking up for geopolitical reality.

Maybe I read you wrong RTL, but you come across as if only the US would be peaceful, the world would follow suit. That's fantasy imo.
I think this is the first time I have been concerned about your understanding.

Presidents Eisenhower, Reagon and the Bush father and son, were elected with Texas money. They all worked for the establishment of US military control of the mid-east and played nasty games in South America too, explained by Right to Left as CIA activity to control the politics of other countries. He has gone on to explain how the US taxpayers are paying for this and the corporations are benefitting from it.

The world thought the US stood against such imperialism, and Iran welcomed us, believing the US would stop at throwing the Brits out. But then CIA instigated a rebellion taking out a democratically elected leader and putting in place a violent despot. Such as was done in South America.

I hope you get on the same page with us. This is what the US defended the world against in two world wars. Hitler and the Bush family called this the New World Order, and Eisenhower called it the Military Industrial Complex. The US had a very weak military except in times of war and is now what it defended the world against and taxpayers refused to pay for until Eisenhower established the MIC. The US adopted the German models of bureaucracy and education, and as Hitler did, enters wars without budgeting for them, by slashing domestic budgets and going into debt to pay for the wars. We need to know the history of Germany to know what has happened to US.

PS I hope folks get what being war ready has to do with the propaganda against socialism. Domestic spending is slashed to pay for the military. And US citizens are made the fools. While the government works Christianity to support this evil.
Thanks from right to left

Last edited by Athena; May 28th, 2018 at 07:59 AM.
Athena is offline  
Old May 28th, 2018, 09:04 AM   #35
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
Good point that I didn't consider. We can consider Israel our "Spanish Civil War" for weapon testing. The Germans and Russians sure ironed out a lot of their military issues that way.
I first learned of how dependent Israel is on war and arms manufacturing from an interview with a brave Israeli journalist & documentarian named Yotam Feldman, who produced the movie: The Lab..about the Israeli arms and security industries which dominate the Israeli economy today. Here's an interview with Shir Hever of the Real News Network that includes a transcript of their discussion:

New Film Exposes the Israeli Weapon and Security Industry
May 20, 2013
https://therealnews.com/stories/sheverthelab0520

But, the contract work they do especially for the US military and policing services also makes them dependent on having Israel as the "lab" for testing out urban warfare and counter-insurgency tactics.
Thanks from Athena
right to left is offline  
Old May 28th, 2018, 09:09 AM   #36
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
I think this is the first time I have been concerned about your understanding.

Presidents Eisenhower, Reagon and the Bush father and son, were elected with Texas money. They all worked for the establishment of US military control of the mid-east and played nasty games in South America too, explained by Right to Left as CIA activity to control the politics of other countries. He has gone on to explain how the US taxpayers are paying for this and the corporations are benefitting from it.

The world thought the US stood against such imperialism, and Iran welcomed us, believing the US would stop at throwing the Brits out. But then CIA instigated a rebellion taking out a democratically elected leader and putting in place a violent despot. Such as was done in South America.

I hope you get on the same page with us. This is what the US defended the world against in two world wars. Hitler and the Bush family called this the New World Order, and Eisenhower called it the Military Industrial Complex. The US had a very weak military except in times of war and is now what it defended the world against and taxpayers refused to pay for until Eisenhower established the MIC. The US adopted the German models of bureaucracy and education, and as Hitler did, enters wars without budgeting for them, by slashing domestic budgets and going into debt to pay for the wars. We need to know the history of Germany to know what has happened to US.

PS I hope folks get what being war ready has to do with the propaganda against socialism. Domestic spending is slashed to pay for the military. And US citizens are made the fools. While the government works Christianity to support this evil.
Good points! Until the aftermath of WWII, the US had always cut back or demilitarized after major wars. Though they did enlarge military forces somewhat to achieve more modest goals of empire...the Philippines and other former Spanish colonies for example;

BUT the US did not seek to replace England as the global empire until after WWII, when it became clear that England was no longer up for the job of permanent warfare and maintaining the largest navy in the world.
Thanks from Athena
right to left is offline  
Old May 28th, 2018, 09:14 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NM
Posts: 1,900
Details, details

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post


The world thought the US stood against such imperialism, and Iran welcomed us, believing the US would stop at throwing the Brits out. But then CIA instigated a rebellion taking out a democratically elected leader and putting in place a violent despot. Such as was done in South America.

Iranian PM Mossadegh (@ the time) did not welcome US intervention in Iran. He was trying to enforce the UK/Iran contract, in which UK was to train Iranian engineers & administrators in oil drilling & admin, & also raise Iran's share of the income from Iran's oil. The UK reneged, & tried to get Pres. Truman to intervene to save the UK exchequer some money. Truman refused, saying it was an internal matter between UK & Iran.

UK then went to Eisenhower, & billed the coup as a strike against the Soviets & their threat to annex Iran & the oil there. Eisenhower bit on that, & ordered CIA to carry out the coup.

See All the Shah's men : an American coup and the roots of Middle East terror [book] / Stephen Kinzer. c2003, John Wiley & Sons, 955.053 Kinz

Subjects
• Mosaddeq, Mohammad, -- 1880-1967.
• Iran -- Politics and government -- 1941-1979.
• United States -- Relations -- Iran.
• Iran -- Relations -- United States.

Notes
• Good evening, Mr. Roosevelt -- Curse this fate -- The last drop of the nation's blood -- A wave of oil -- His master's orders -- Unseen enemies everywhere -- You do not know how evil they are -- An immensely shrewd old man -- Block headed British -- Pull up your socks and get going -- I knew it! : they love me! -- Purring like a giant cat.

Length xiii, 258 p., [8] p. of plates :

Good, war on the cheap for Prex Eisenhower. Incredible naiveté from the CinC, CIA, State Dept. (the Dulles bros.) Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA slipped the leash.

& also Bitter fruit : the untold story of the American coup in Guatemala / Stephen Schlesinger and Stephen Kinzer. 972.81 Schl

Subjects
• United Fruit Company.
• Guatemala -- History -- Revolution, 1954.
• United States -- Foreign relations -- Guatemala.

Notes Includes index.

Length xv, 320 p., [16] p. of plates :
Thanks from Athena
hoosier88 is offline  
Old May 29th, 2018, 07:10 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Good points! Until the aftermath of WWII, the US had always cut back or demilitarized after major wars. Though they did enlarge military forces somewhat to achieve more modest goals of empire...the Philippines and other former Spanish colonies for example;

BUT the US did not seek to replace England as the global empire until after WWII, when it became clear that England was no longer up for the job of permanent warfare and maintaining the largest navy in the world.

This Youtube is more impressive because the speaker is better and he was directly involved in what is happening in Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnO62u1A7pc

Our Blacks should know this. They are our Palestinians, and our police are trained in Israel.

Israel police strip Palestinians and parade them down the street. A Palestinian can be held at checkpoints for many hours in the heat of the day, by sadistic border police and the Palestinians have no defense against this. Israel is sick and we do not want that sickness in the US.

I want to add I think President Eisenhower was very idealist and naive. He was the Texas choice for President and he was used by those interested in forming the Military Industrial Complex, that has everything to do with the control of oil. This is politics on a whole different than what the average citizen, thinking of family and a job, when they think about politics. I don't think Eisenhower was one of these power players, and when he realized what was happen and was leaving office he warned us.

Last edited by Athena; May 29th, 2018 at 07:49 AM.
Athena is offline  
Old May 29th, 2018, 07:38 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
Iranian PM Mossadegh (@ the time) did not welcome US intervention in Iran. He was trying to enforce the UK/Iran contract, in which UK was to train Iranian engineers & administrators in oil drilling & admin, & also raise Iran's share of the income from Iran's oil. The UK reneged, & tried to get Pres. Truman to intervene to save the UK exchequer some money. Truman refused, saying it was an internal matter between UK & Iran.

UK then went to Eisenhower, & billed the coup as a strike against the Soviets & their threat to annex Iran & the oil there. Eisenhower bit on that, & ordered CIA to carry out the coup.

See All the Shah's men : an American coup and the roots of Middle East terror [book] / Stephen Kinzer. c2003, John Wiley & Sons, 955.053 Kinz

Subjects
• Mosaddeq, Mohammad, -- 1880-1967.
• Iran -- Politics and government -- 1941-1979.
• United States -- Relations -- Iran.
• Iran -- Relations -- United States.

Notes
• Good evening, Mr. Roosevelt -- Curse this fate -- The last drop of the nation's blood -- A wave of oil -- His master's orders -- Unseen enemies everywhere -- You do not know how evil they are -- An immensely shrewd old man -- Block headed British -- Pull up your socks and get going -- I knew it! : they love me! -- Purring like a giant cat.

Length xiii, 258 p., [8] p. of plates :

Good, war on the cheap for Prex Eisenhower. Incredible naiveté from the CinC, CIA, State Dept. (the Dulles bros.) Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA slipped the leash.

& also Bitter fruit : the untold story of the American coup in Guatemala / Stephen Schlesinger and Stephen Kinzer. 972.81 Schl

Subjects
• United Fruit Company.
• Guatemala -- History -- Revolution, 1954.
• United States -- Foreign relations -- Guatemala.

Notes Includes index.

Length xv, 320 p., [16] p. of plates :
Here is an explanation of why Iran was on good terms with the US. This would be the time of the second world war and Iran was in danger of being divided between the Moscow and London.

Quote:
Frenemies: Iran and America since 1900 | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective
A hard-headed nationalist, Reza Shah tried unsuccessfully to seize control of the oilfields from the recently rechristened Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) in 1932 and flirted with Nazi Germany later that decade in an ill-advised effort to counterbalance Britain's influence. Troubled by the specter of a Berlin-Tehran axis, Winston Churchill and Josef Stalin secretly agreed to depose Reza Shah in August 1941, replacing him with his 20-year-old son Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. They also announced that their two nations would jointly occupy Iran for the duration of World War II—Britain in the south and Russia in the north.

Fearing that Iran might be carved up into permanent spheres of influence, Washington quickly secured pledges that both London and Moscow would withdraw their troops six months after the war ended. Meanwhile, America's stock rose in the eyes of many Iranians as U.S. advisers helped the young Shah plan the economic infrastructure essential for postwar modernization and development.

British forces pulled out of Iran on schedule, but when the Soviets refused to honor the March 1946 deadline, President Harry S. Truman decided, as Secretary of State James Byrnes put it, "to give it to them with both barrels," censuring the Kremlin at the United Nations and making thinly veiled nuclear threats. Stalin finally withdrew the Red Army two months later, but only after receiving assurances from Iranian Prime Minister Ahmed Qavam that the Soviet Union would have access to oil fields in northern Iran.
Athena is offline  
Old May 29th, 2018, 07:44 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
BubbaJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 7,736
What ALL of this means is the we, the U.S. should put massive effort into green and renewable energy to run our country. Get off the oil, or at least enough to become and remain self sustaining. Then we can cut the military budget and quit fucking around and empire building.
Thanks from hoosier88
BubbaJones is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Issues > Warfare

Tags
alliances, arabia, dangerous, israel, isreal, saudi



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
There goes Saudi Arabia Franklin Current Events 6 December 13th, 2015 04:49 PM
What's behind Saudi Arabia's new muscularity imaginethat Middle East 10 June 1st, 2015 06:47 AM
Is Saudi Arabia Now the Israel of the Gulf? LongWinded World History 7 May 13th, 2015 07:13 PM
Axis of Evil Qatar Saudi Israel and Saudi fund Al Qaeda Enigma Current Events 0 December 24th, 2013 06:55 AM
Theories on Israel, Iran, Turkey and Saudi Arabia Foreign Relations intorg Middle East 0 December 14th, 2013 04:57 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.