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Old May 29th, 2018, 07:51 AM   #41
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Frenemies: Iran and America since 1900 | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective


Fearing that Iran might be carved up into permanent spheres of influence, Washington quickly secured pledges that both London and Moscow would withdraw their troops six months after the war ended. Meanwhile, America's stock rose in the eyes of many Iranians as U.S. advisers helped the young Shah plan the economic infrastructure essential for postwar modernization and development.


Yah, we did that. Unfortunately, we also trained the Iranian secret police, the SAVAK - which was fiercely repressive & tended to shoot first, & hardly ever bothered to ask questions @ all. As long as the opposition was cast as Communist - a standard ploy in Iran (the reason we overthrew their PM, as well - UK was not above using the same card), everything was forgiven. The US committed the cardinal sin of intel agencies - we didn't have our own network of agents & informers to know what was actually taking place on the ground in Iran. As the Shah's grip on power become more & more tenuous, he assured the US that everything was just fine & peachy.

SAVAK & the Shah drove political resistance to the mosques, & the Ayatollah Khomeini was the result. His heirs still rule in Iran.
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Old May 29th, 2018, 08:40 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
Quote:
Frenemies: Iran and America since 1900 | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective


Fearing that Iran might be carved up into permanent spheres of influence, Washington quickly secured pledges that both London and Moscow would withdraw their troops six months after the war ended. Meanwhile, America's stock rose in the eyes of many Iranians as U.S. advisers helped the young Shah plan the economic infrastructure essential for postwar modernization and development.


Yah, we did that. Unfortunately, we also trained the Iranian secret police, the SAVAK - which was fiercely repressive & tended to shoot first, & hardly ever bothered to ask questions @ all. As long as the opposition was cast as Communist - a standard ploy in Iran (the reason we overthrew their PM, as well - UK was not above using the same card), everything was forgiven. The US committed the cardinal sin of intel agencies - we didn't have our own network of agents & informers to know what was actually taking place on the ground in Iran. As the Shah's grip on power become more & more tenuous, he assured the US that everything was just fine & peachy.

SAVAK & the Shah drove political resistance to the mosques, & the Ayatollah Khomeini was the result. His heirs still rule in Iran.
Not to mention the fact that the Shah was about as dirty, rotten, corrupt and assholey as the last few S Vietnam rulers the US installed.
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Old May 29th, 2018, 09:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
This Youtube is more impressive because the speaker is better and he was directly involved in what is happening in Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnO62u1A7pc
Thanks! I noticed there were a number of other related videos in the sidebar which provided further information about Israel's foreign military, policing and private security clients who send their people to Israel and occupied territories for training and host Israeli experts to go to their locations
as instructors and trainers. Then, there's the weapons makers who test out new counter-insurgency weapons and modifications for crowd control and counter-insurgency tactics at home in America, Europe, Latin America and even indirect allies like Saudi Arabia and Jordan...who don't want to be seen in pictures with IDF soldiers or Israeli personnel.
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Our Blacks should know this. They are our Palestinians, and our police are trained in Israel.

Israel police strip Palestinians and parade them down the street. A Palestinian can be held at checkpoints for many hours in the heat of the day, by sadistic border police and the Palestinians have no defense against this. Israel is sick and we do not want that sickness in the US.
I'm pretty sure they're well aware of this and have been for a long time in most US cities with large African American populations. The rest of us...even those of us who think we're up on the latest news, didn't really get the full picture until that first night of demonstrations and so called 'riots' after the Michael Brown verdict exonerating the cop who pumped him full of bullets. That night, we learned how this small suburb of St. Louis had at least one of its own armored personnel carriers WTF complete with cops dressed like imperial storm troopers in armor and bullet-proof helmets..aiming fully automatic weapons at the crowds confronting them. One of the most outrageous and re-posted provocations was that cop or soldier or is there a difference..sitting on top of the tank aiming his high-powered automatic at people in the crowd he was threatening to shoot....welcome to America!

In the following days and weeks after the protests, we learned that Ferguson has closed libraries, community pools and cut back on every municipal service EXCEPT policing...what a surprise! And we learned that they don't have to pay retail rates for all their weapons and battle gear as surplus crap from all the foreign wars is provided to US police forces free or at low cost....so everyone gets tanks running down their streets!

If we followed the news closely from Black Lives Matter and activists in the St. Louis area..that MSM won't cover, we also learn that because of tax cuts at all levels of government, Ferguson raises a large portion of its revenues through the Ferguson Police Force's extortion of local citizens...focusing on black residents..who are likely to be poorer and less likely to afford lawyers to challenge unwarranted fines and other revenue-generating fees that mostly target the poorest people/not the rich or comfortably middle class. With that in mind, it's easy to see how the trial of Michael Brown's killer served as the catalyst and not even the primary concern of most of the demonstrators who were out in the streets, and had their own grudges against the police, city officials and even local business owners who control most of local politics.

But, the response to any civil unrest, regardless of how serious it is, is gestapo tactics provided with Israeli training/rather than reforms to policing, tax policies or taking money away from bloated police budgets and providing more back to needed local services. Welcome to Third World America, and with all the Trump pronouncements of giving security state infrastructure more money and more licence to "crack down" on lawbreakers, expect America to look like El Salvador or Sao Paulo in another 10 years!

Quote:
I want to add I think President Eisenhower was very idealist and naive. He was the Texas choice for President and he was used by those interested in forming the Military Industrial Complex, that has everything to do with the control of oil. This is politics on a whole different than what the average citizen, thinking of family and a job, when they think about politics. I don't think Eisenhower was one of these power players, and when he realized what was happen and was leaving office he warned us.
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Old May 29th, 2018, 09:30 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
Quote:
Frenemies: Iran and America since 1900 | Origins: Current Events in Historical Perspective


Fearing that Iran might be carved up into permanent spheres of influence, Washington quickly secured pledges that both London and Moscow would withdraw their troops six months after the war ended. Meanwhile, America's stock rose in the eyes of many Iranians as U.S. advisers helped the young Shah plan the economic infrastructure essential for postwar modernization and development.


Yah, we did that. Unfortunately, we also trained the Iranian secret police, the SAVAK - which was fiercely repressive & tended to shoot first, & hardly ever bothered to ask questions @ all. As long as the opposition was cast as Communist - a standard ploy in Iran (the reason we overthrew their PM, as well - UK was not above using the same card), everything was forgiven. The US committed the cardinal sin of intel agencies - we didn't have our own network of agents & informers to know what was actually taking place on the ground in Iran. As the Shah's grip on power become more & more tenuous, he assured the US that everything was just fine & peachy.

SAVAK & the Shah drove political resistance to the mosques, & the Ayatollah Khomeini was the result. His heirs still rule in Iran.
Thank you for your willingness to discuss this issue. I read that part of the US and Iranian problem was the result of US troops being stationed in Iran and running over citizens with their jeeps. The US reaction to this was to blame the Iranians who stepped into the street when they were using the road. I looked for a link that may verify what I had read and I found this confirmation of US troops stationed in Iran.

Quote:
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...awal-from-iran
The Iranian crisis began during World War II. In 1942, Iran signed an agreement by which British and Soviet troops were allowed into the country in order to defend the oil-rich nation from possible German attack. American troops were also soon in Iran.
For all the countries the objective was controlling oil. The citizens of the US do not know this because oil is rarely in the news. We are told the conflict is with communism or now since we are no longer threatened by the communist USSR, it is about terrorist and religious fanatics. We are ignorant and easily manipulated. But you can bet Cheney and Bush knew about controlling oil!

I would not know this stuff if I had microfilmed old newspapers for the U of O and found the articles in a 1920's newspaper. At the time we were dealing with an economic crisis because of OPEC embargoed oil to the US, so anything about oil in the 1920's caught my eye. A small article said, "Given our known oil supply and rate of consumption, we are head for economic disaster and possibly war." As everyone knows all industrial economies collapsed the world went to the war.

Oil was first discovered in Iran in 1908 and not until 1927 was it discovered in Iraq and this was Turkish territory! You know that little war Britain fought with the Turks, with the help of Arabs who were promised the region and were not told the Jews would get Palestine.

https://www.quora.com/When-and-how-w...he-Middle-East

All industrial economies depend on oil. Israel is vital to US control of the region and as Right to Left pointed out, the US /Israel connection is about developing policing and military weapons and tactics. And what the idiots in this forum are discussing is Trump's claim of a spy during his campaign. They are not in this thread and I think this one is slightly more important? And my Christian friend is so happy about Trump and the embassy being moved to Jerusalem. Sorry, I need to rant about this moronic thinking. We are ignorant idiots!

Last edited by Athena; May 29th, 2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old May 29th, 2018, 09:46 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Thanks! I noticed there were a number of other related videos in the sidebar which provided further information about Israel's foreign military, policing and private security clients who send their people to Israel and occupied territories for training and host Israeli experts to go to their locations
as instructors and trainers. Then, there's the weapons makers who test out new counter-insurgency weapons and modifications for crowd control and counter-insurgency tactics at home in America, Europe, Latin America and even indirect allies like Saudi Arabia and Jordan...who don't want to be seen in pictures with IDF soldiers or Israeli personnel.

I'm pretty sure they're well aware of this and have been for a long time in most US cities with large African American populations. The rest of us...even those of us who think we're up on the latest news, didn't really get the full picture until that first night of demonstrations and so called 'riots' after the Michael Brown verdict exonerating the cop who pumped him full of bullets. That night, we learned how this small suburb of St. Louis had at least one of its own armored personnel carriers WTF complete with cops dressed like imperial storm troopers in armor and bullet-proof helmets..aiming fully automatic weapons at the crowds confronting them. One of the most outrageous and re-posted provocations was that cop or soldier or is there a difference..sitting on top of the tank aiming his high-powered automatic at people in the crowd he was threatening to shoot....welcome to America!

In the following days and weeks after the protests, we learned that Ferguson has closed libraries, community pools and cut back on every municipal service EXCEPT policing...what a surprise! And we learned that they don't have to pay retail rates for all their weapons and battle gear as surplus crap from all the foreign wars is provided to US police forces free or at low cost....so everyone gets tanks running down their streets!

If we followed the news closely from Black Lives Matter and activists in the St. Louis area..that MSM won't cover, we also learn that because of tax cuts at all levels of government, Ferguson raises a large portion of its revenues through the Ferguson Police Force's extortion of local citizens...focusing on black residents..who are likely to be poorer and less likely to afford lawyers to challenge unwarranted fines and other revenue-generating fees that mostly target the poorest people/not the rich or comfortably middle class. With that in mind, it's easy to see how the trial of Michael Brown's killer served as the catalyst and not even the primary concern of most of the demonstrators who were out in the streets, and had their own grudges against the police, city officials and even local business owners who control most of local politics.

But, the response to any civil unrest, regardless of how serious it is, is gestapo tactics provided with Israeli training/rather than reforms to policing, tax policies or taking money away from bloated police budgets and providing more back to needed local services. Welcome to Third World America, and with all the Trump pronouncements of giving security state infrastructure more money and more licence to "crack down" on lawbreakers, expect America to look like El Salvador or Sao Paulo in another 10 years!
What you said goes with reactionary politics and the intense divisions of citizens that occupy CNN news and the masses. We replaced our liberal education with the German model of education for technology, and I am afraid you right about our future. How might we get the rest of the forum members participating in this discussion?
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