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Old May 13th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #1
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Dangerous alliances with Saudi Arabia and Israel

The US has the most weapons. China has the second most weapons. The little country of Saudi Arabia comes in third as the nation with the most weapons! When Saudi Arabia's oil is exhausted, it will not passively sink back into poverty, but it will use those weapons for economic reasons. Involvement with this is equal to supporting Hitler and Trump could be making grave mistakes by playing games with the leader of Saudi Arabia.

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As Civilian Deaths in Yemen Mount, Trump Moves to Sell Saudi Arabia Billions More in Bombs
"Trump wants to sell Saudi and the UAE a bunch more bombs to keep killing civilians in Yemen. Congress must stop this sale."

byJake Johnson, staff writer

"The sale in question is a direct commercial transaction between Raytheon and the Gulf countries, which does not require the government to publicly announce the sale at the time of congressional notification," Emmons reported. "That means it will be up to senators to decide how many of the details to make public."

The reported weapons deal—which could be sent to Congress as early as next week—comes as some American lawmakers are increasingly calling attention to U.S. complicity in Saudi Arabia's vicious, years-long assault on Yemen.
How well do you like Saudi Arabia dictating our political affairs?

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Trump has threatened to withdraw the United States from the nuclear accord unless European allies and the U.S. Congress agree by May 12 to fix what he called its "disastrous flaws" and impose tough new restrictions aimed at curbing Iran's ballistic-missile development and its involvement in regional conflicts.

Saudi Arabia has opposed the deal since it was signed in 2015 by Iran and five world powers, saying it did not go far enough to curb Iran's nuclear activities in exchange for sanctions relief.
Do you notice Trump's actions follow his talks with the Saudis? Claiming the deal Obama made with Iran was illegal is just bull shit. The change was made because the Saudis wanted it made.
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Last edited by Athena; May 13th, 2018 at 08:15 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2018, 07:28 AM   #2
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In my mind, Israel and Saudi Arabia are not our allies. They know how vulnerable we are with this crazy nutjob in the Oval Office and they are taking full advantage of this vulnerability. If a Democrat were to win in 2020, I think the first order of business would be to suspend all arms sales to Israel and Saudi Arabia. The blood on our hands is becoming intolerable.
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Old May 13th, 2018, 07:54 AM   #3
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The US props up the Saudis to guarantee European oil

The Saudis cut a deal with the devil - their Wahhabi Islamists. In return for their blessing, the Saudis pour money into Wahhabi madrassas, mosques, allow them to recruit young feckless men with no real skills, export the lot to other Islamic populations, & try to convert them to Wahhabi (or similar) doctrine - basically hate for the West in general, & the US & Israel in particular. Just like Pakistan, which has done the same internally & trying to control & channel the anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan & then bring down the Communist rump government abandoned there - & siphon off money, materials, to train their own Kashmir irredentists. Pakistan's ISI is joined @ the hip with the Sunni Islamist radicals, except for the even bloodier ones who have decided that ISI & Pakistan & Saudi Arabia are also devils to be fought.

See Blowback, Chalmers Johnson; Ghost wars, Steve Coll.
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Old May 13th, 2018, 08:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Camelot View Post
In my mind, Israel and Saudi Arabia are not our allies. They know how vulnerable we are with this crazy nutjob in the Oval Office and they are taking full advantage of this vulnerability. If a Democrat were to win in 2020, I think the first order of business would be to suspend all arms sales to Israel and Saudi Arabia. The blood on our hands is becoming intolerable.
It's not Israel that's the problem It's the Likud party. The majority of Israel isn't Likud, and doesn't support Netanyahu, or the relationship he has with Republicans in the US. What's need is an organized effort by US, European, and Israeli operatives to undermine, and destroy the Likud party in Israel.

And for anyone who thinks that's out of line, let me refresh your short memory of how Likud and Republicans in the US, did everything they could to undermine President Obama. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that is off the table to destroy the Likud party in Israel, or the Republican party in the US.
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Old May 13th, 2018, 08:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
It's not Israel that's the problem It's the Likud party. The majority of Israel isn't Likud, and doesn't support Netanyahu, or the relationship he has with Republicans in the US. What's need is an organized effort by US, European, and Israeli operatives to undermine, and destroy the Likud party in Israel.

And for anyone who thinks that's out of line, let me refresh your short memory of how Likud and Republicans in the US, did everything they could to undermine President Obama. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that is off the table to destroy the Likud party in Israel, or the Republican party in the US.
"When it rains in Israel it pours in Iran." Netanyahu
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Old May 13th, 2018, 08:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
The Saudis cut a deal with the devil - their Wahhabi Islamists. In return for their blessing, the Saudis pour money into Wahhabi madrassas, mosques, allow them to recruit young feckless men with no real skills, export the lot of other Islamic populations, & try to convert them to Wahhabi (or similar) doctrine - basically hate for the West in general, & the US & Israel in particular. Just like Pakistan, which has done the same internally & trying to control & channel the anti-Soviet jihad in Afghanistan & then bring down the Communist rump government abandoned there - & siphon off money, materials, to train their own Kashmir irredentists. Pakistan's ISI is joined @ the hip with the Sunni Islamist radicals, except for the even bloodier ones who have decided that ISI & Pakistan & Saudi Arabia are also devils to be fought.

See Blowback, Chalmers Johnson; Ghost wars, Steve Coll.
I think in the US we are not aware of how serious the religious problem is. I wish we all studied history and knew how political leaders use the different groups for their own power. This is as true in the US as anywhere else in the world. It is as true for Christians as it is for Muslims. Maybe understanding the truth of these matters would not change the reality, but I would feel much better if we all understood the truth of how ambitious people use religion for their own power. And we stopped selling arms to and supporting the ambitious people who use religion for their own purpose.
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Old May 13th, 2018, 08:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
I think in the US we are not aware of how serious the religious problem is. I wish we all studied history and knew how political leaders use the different groups for their own power. This is as true in the US as anywhere else in the world. It is as true for Christians as it is for Muslims. Maybe understanding the truth of these matters would not change the reality, but I would feel much better if we all understood the truth of how ambitious people use religion for their own power. And we stopped selling arms to and supporting the ambitious people who use religion for their own purpose.
Brad the Preacherman wanted to buy 25 acres I own next to his mega-church but I won't sell for any price. Then The Preacherman called the Fire Department on me. The Firemen said we go to Brad's Church and he told us to come over to see if you are alright. I told the Firemen that I am always alright and tell Brad to never come back here again. Brad the Preacherman is more than pushy and he has not come back.
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Old May 14th, 2018, 07:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
Brad the Preacherman wanted to buy 25 acres I own next to his mega-church but I won't sell for any price. Then The Preacherman called the Fire Department on me. The Firemen said we go to Brad's Church and he told us to come over to see if you are alright. I told the Firemen that I am always alright and tell Brad to never come back here again. Brad the Preacherman is more than pushy and he has not come back.
Thank you for taking a stand and holding your grounds. That is what is required in a land of liberty and justice.
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Old May 14th, 2018, 07:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
I think in the US we are not aware of how serious the religious problem is. I wish we all studied history and knew how political leaders use the different groups for their own power. This is as true in the US as anywhere else in the world. It is as true for Christians as it is for Muslims. Maybe understanding the truth of these matters would not change the reality, but I would feel much better if we all understood the truth of how ambitious people use religion for their own power. And we stopped selling arms to and supporting the ambitious people who use religion for their own purpose.
Religion is dangerous. It's a powerful weapon. However I think this country is slowly loosening Christianity's grip on it. Each new generation seem less inclined towards religion. So maybe there's a little hope for us still.
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Old May 16th, 2018, 08:28 AM   #10
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It is not just a matter of our religious standing but other nations as well. Israel is for Jews and is not a nation of equality like the US. Their treatment of Palestinians is what brings Muslims from other countries into the conflict.

However, Muslims are also divided against each other and they are making war on each other! It is all too confusing for me, but I do understand this is a dangerous situation that very much involves the US that is escalating the chance of war and the destructive power of war.

Who did not expect Trump's embassy to lead to violence in Israel? This headline is an editorial and I think it has merit.

Quote:
Donald Trump has ruined any chance of a two-state solution in the Israel-Palestine conflict and the American public knows it
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8352791.html
Thanks to an internet forum I became aware of the Palestinian point of view many years ago and it is clear Israel did to the Palestinians what the European immigrants did to native Americans. I think this is morally wrong and falsely justified as the will of God. I am very uncomfortable supporting a nation that is not a democracy like the US but is a theocracy for Jews. The US support of Israel includes vetoing every UN effort to act in the best interest of the Palestinians, including not enforcing UN agreements made long ago. This is about religion but it also about strategy and control of land and resources. It is control of land and resources that pits the US against Muslims confusing wars for control with holy war.

Does the public of the US want to continue supporting this? If it were not for Christian domination would the public have ever supported Israel? Why would this part of the world be such a large military expense to us if it were not Christians believing this is the will of God?
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