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Old May 22nd, 2018, 04:50 PM   #1
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Hitler was stupid to not attack Russia FIRST

the rest of the world would have HELPED him. He could then have swept down, grabbed the oil fields and the Suez canal, swifly moved thru the Mediterranean and taken Gibraltar, then England. Without England to use as a staging zone and airbase, the Allies could not have dislodged him without the nukes and they'd never have nuked Europe. Too much fallout, both nuclear and political.Russia was FAR worse than the Nazis. They killed twice as many people and are still doing so to this day.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 04:54 PM   #2
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It could've never happened. The realities of the two-front war necessitated knocking out France and attempting to knock out Britain before even attempting to go after the Soviet Union. The goal all along was to take out the Soviets, yes, but Hitler was trying his best to avoid a two-front war and thus the only way that things could've worked out is how they actually did.

I very much doubt the Germans could've reached the Baku oil fields under, well, any circumstances that involves Britain still in the War. I also very much doubt their ability to sweep down through the Caucasus and into Iraq, and somehow make it to Egypt. Simply not feasible.

Maybe in Hearts of Iron, but not in real life. The Germans, noble as their cause was, were doomed from the start.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 05:09 PM   #3
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The Soviets killed more people because they had more time. A lot more time. The Germans had less than six years and really didn't start ramping up the serious killing until 1941. Hitler was a greater evil than Stalin and Hirohito combined.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 05:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Peter the Roman View Post
It could've never happened. The realities of the two-front war necessitated knocking out France and attempting to knock out Britain before even attempting to go after the Soviet Union. The goal all along was to take out the Soviets, yes, but Hitler was trying his best to avoid a two-front war and thus the only way that things could've worked out is how they actually did.

I very much doubt the Germans could've reached the Baku oil fields under, well, any circumstances that involves Britain still in the War. I also very much doubt their ability to sweep down through the Caucasus and into Iraq, and somehow make it to Egypt. Simply not feasible.

Maybe in Hearts of Iron, but not in real life. The Germans, noble as their cause was, were doomed from the start.


BS, France and England would have HELPED hiter fight the commies. The US PROBABLY would have done so. He'd never had had to worry about a 2 front war.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 05:25 PM   #5
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BS, France and England would have HELPED hiter fight the commies. The US PROBABLY would have done so. He'd never had had to worry about a 2 front war.
No so. Even if he did not attack Poland first before he turned on France, he would still have to go through Poland first to fight the Soviets. The Brits and French would still be upset with what happened to Czechoslovakia and they would stilled be allied with the Poles.

What kept the Germans in the war was the resources of the conquered and annexed nations. If he attack USSR first, Hitler would have shortened the life of the Third Reich by two years.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 05:50 PM   #6
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neither England or france would have amounted to a hill of beans had not the US supplied them. Neither would the Russians. The US could not have cared less if Hitler had killed every last Russian. in fact, many would have at least cheered and quite a few would have sent him money.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 06:20 PM   #7
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neither England or france would have amounted to a hill of beans had not the US supplied them. Neither would the Russians. The US could not have cared less if Hitler had killed every last Russian. in fact, many would have at least cheered and quite a few would have sent him money.
Lend-Lease is a two way street.

Do you know one of the reasons why the food rationing was so tight in Britain was due to diverting fresh items to feed US personal based in Britain? We gave them spam and beans so that our men can have fresh eggs, milk, etc.

Our planes were outfitted with British manufactured radios, radars, cameras, etc after they arrived in Britain. The exchanges were numerous if you care to study history.

Who cracked the German codes?

By the time the Soviets received our help, the Germans had already been stopped, the tide was coming back against them as the momentum had begun to shift to the Soviets.

In June of 1944, without counting the Hungarian, Yugoslavian, Romanian, and Bulgarian armies, there were 150 German division tied down by the Soviets on the Eastern Front. Normandy would have been a failure if the additional Germans and their allies were in France. Had the Luftwaffe not have been bled dry by the Soviets, there also goes the strategic bombing campaign over Germany. Not to mention actually have planes to attack the beaches of Normandy instead of fighting Soviets.

The Americans were pro-Romanov and anti-Bolsheviks, they had nothing against the Soviet or Russian people. By 1933, the fear of communism by the American people had subsided, the US officially recognized the USSR, and FDR and the business communities were pushing for trade agreements. They were actually starting to be anti-Nazi with Hitler's rise to power, and the German American Bund was becoming a pain in the ass.

You fail to understand the power and resolve of the USSR. She emerged from the war as a superpower. All other combats, other than the US and Canada was bankrupted and lost their empires.

Last edited by Marcus Livius; May 22nd, 2018 at 06:49 PM.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 06:40 PM   #8
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BS, France and England would have HELPED hiter fight the commies. The US PROBABLY would have done so. He'd never had had to worry about a 2 front war.
Fool. The French and the English were fully under the control of the International Jewry. There was not a snowball's chance in Hell that they would've assisted in the National Socialist Revolution. Not a fucking chance.
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neither England or france would have amounted to a hill of beans had not the US supplied them. Neither would the Russians. The US could not have cared less if Hitler had killed every last Russian. in fact, many would have at least cheered and quite a few would have sent him money.
Wrong on all accounts. The United States was relatively uninvolved until the Fall of France, and even then the material aid only ramped up after Germany's declaration of war in 1941. Lend Lease didn't even start coming in on the Russian Front until AFTER the failure of Heeresgruppe Mitte to seize Moscow in Unternehmen Taifun.

The United States was controlled, same as Britain and France, by the International Jewry and thus could not allow the National Socialists to succeed on any account. That's why the issue was pressed on Poland, when it was clear to them that the goal of the National Socialists was to reunite the German Fatherland in its entire, pre-Great War borders.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 06:58 PM   #9
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The details can be surprising

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Who cracked the German codes?

...
A brilliant group of Polish intelligence codebreakers. As Poland collapsed, they took their documents, Enigma replicas, etc. to French intelligence - which I believe, had bought copies of the Enigma layout & rotors & manuals & etc. (it was a commercial coder/decoder before the German military adopted it) from a German officer in charge of buying/supplying Enigma machines within the German military. Documents, models, expertise & some of the Polish (& French?) cryptanalysts got to UK, where they participated in further attacking Enigma & the other German codes.

See Enigma : the battle for the code [book] / Hugh Sebag-Montefiore. 940.5485 Seba

Subjects
Enigma cipher system -- History.
World War, 1939-1945 -- Cryptography.

Notes
"First published in Great Britain in 2000 by Weidenfeld & Nicolson"--T.p. verso.

Length x, 422 p., [16] p. of plates :

An excellent primer on the Enigma. Photos & diagrams throughout, along with an exhaustive history of the device, system, the variants. Exploded views of the inside of an Enigma, & so on.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 07:04 PM   #10
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A brilliant group of Polish intelligence codebreakers. As Poland collapsed, they took their documents, Enigma replicas, etc. to French intelligence - which I believe, had bought copies of the Enigma layout & rotors & manuals & etc. (it was a commercial coder/decoder before the German military adopted it) from a German officer in charge of buying/supplying Enigma machines within the German military. Documents, models, expertise & some of the Polish (& French?) cryptanalysts got to UK, where they participated in further attacking Enigma & the other German codes.

See Enigma : the battle for the code [book] / Hugh Sebag-Montefiore. 940.5485 Seba

Subjects
Enigma cipher system -- History.
World War, 1939-1945 -- Cryptography.

Notes
"First published in Great Britain in 2000 by Weidenfeld & Nicolson"--T.p. verso.

Length x, 422 p., [16] p. of plates :

An excellent primer on the Enigma. Photos & diagrams throughout, along with an exhaustive history of the device, system, the variants. Exploded views of the inside of an Enigma, & so on.
Thanks. I know the details. I was trying to gauge how much this new member actually knows about the nonsense he is posting. Another German fanboy in out midst.
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