Adoption and Foster Care in Crisis

Feb 2014
2,473
1,145
Oregon
#21
I can't agree with you here completely. "Family values" has been used time and again to discriminate against gay people like me. We have families too, and i get tired of hearing how we're "unfit" blah blah blah... We're just as capable of raising good kids as anyone else. We've been doing it forever. You're right- education is key here.

The proof is out there:

Children raised by same-sex parents do as well as their peers, study shows
What does the scholarly research say about the well-being of children with gay or lesbian parents? | What We Know
How many same-sex couples in the U.S. are raising children? - Williams Institute

Regarding the opioid crisis that seems to be the main driver in the article, that is not a failing of people's values. Addiction to these substances is the result of people being prescribed to them for whatever medical reason. A friend of mine just lost his brother this very thing. He was involved in a train accident and had to be hospitalized. He was treated with opioids for pain and was addicted before he even left the hospital. The doctors continued to prescribe the medication afterward. He accidentally overdosed one night in his apartment. That's not a moral failing, that's a failing of our health care system and the pharmaceutical companies that push this garbage. His doctors caused another disease, addiction, while trying to treat another problem. And they didn't stop prescribing it. This is a person who would never have sought out these drugs in the first place. It's not as if he was looking to "party".

That is the particular problem that needs be addressed in the present. That seems to be the main driver according to the article. What we need to do is get these drugs out of our health care system and then help the people who are addicted to them. That is something we don't do well in this country because people such as yourself view this as a moral failing on the part of the addicted. Most of those addicted never asked for this to happen to them. They trusted their medical professionals. Addiction is a disease, like any other. If there is any moral failing here, it is on the part of drug companies, who only see dollar signs. So if you're looking to place moral blame, place it on the right people.
Obviously, gays have families. We don't find babies in cabbage patches. The last statistic I saw said gay couples are more apt to stay together than heterosexuals. Arguing against family values is shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it? Take a lesson from the Christians. Adopt what is good and claim to the world it is yours. As we destroy family values, I am perhaps even angrier than you are.

Without family order that leaves Prussian military order applied to citizens to order our society and while there are some benefits to this, people dependent on the state instead of on their families is a huge danger to our liberty! My family was very small and broken up when I was 4, and the important family members were dead when the state took my grandchildren. If it had not been a good time to grandparents to fight for their rights, I would have faced the state alone and I would have lost.

Please, someone, understand what I am saying. When we stand alone against the state we are in great danger.

When I had custody of my grandchildren, but it was not formally established, the school couldn't even call me if a child broke a leg. They left from my home every morning and returned every night, and DNA could prove we were related, but the state did not recognize our family connection and did not make it easy for me to care for them. When my daughter faced a hearing to keep her children, I wasn't informed. No authority of any kind spoke to me about the care of my grandchildren. The children had an attorney, and that attorney never spoke with me, so tell me how the attorney make an informed decision on what is best for the children. Damnit to Hell, you all are living in a dream world unaware of our reality. :mad: We need to strengthen family values!
 
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Feb 2014
2,473
1,145
Oregon
#22
The caseworker who held power over decisions, did all in her power to prevent my daughter from having a relationship with me and prevented me from having even visiting rights with the children. She told my daughter should make herself available to be a full-time mother, meaning she was afraid of getting a job against the caseworker's will, so she couldn't rent a home and without a home she couldn't get the children. She was months away from loosing her children for life when I gave her my home. I was also able to get the caseworker changed because of the political activity and she got her children so fast we were in shock.

Caseworkers hold the power of tyranny. Every decision made is based on what is in a file and the caseworker controls what is in the file. Those files are written to make the caseworker look good and justified. As I came to understand this, I learned what logic has to do with justice. The caseworker had said she denied me visits with the children in November because of what I did in December. When I pointed out, a decision in November cannot be based on what happens in December, the caseworker was finally changed, and immediately everything changed, because the next caseworker also held all the power to make whatever decisions he wanted to make. He just made totally different decisions that returned the children to my daughter. However, the damage done by well-meaning people put my family deeper and deeper into hell. My daughter who needed to respect and appreciate me, felt even justified to rebel against me. Now, unfortunately, her youngest child is making her life hell. So now I speak against women's liberation and in favor of family values! We need to understand family duties and we need to keep the state out of our lives!

PS the second time the children were taken, I was immediately called and the children were put in my custody until my daughter got her act together and she could return to being a mother. The problem was not me, but a changing world without strong family values and meth and well-meaning people with their own axes to grind, and the schools believing they are better authorities over the children than parents and federal laws that prevent schools from working with grandparents, and laws that prevented police from picking up runaway children, and federal laws that fast line children into adoption with the mentality of slave trading. Law after law has shifted the control of our lives from parents to the state and there is no public awareness of this.
 
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May 2018
4,062
2,496
Chicago
#23
The caseworker who held power over decisions, did all in her power to prevent my daughter from having a relationship with me and prevented me from having even visiting rights with the children. She told my daughter should make herself available to be a full-time mother, meaning she was afraid of getting a job against the caseworker's will, so she couldn't rent a home and without a home she couldn't get the children. She was months away from loosing her children for life when I gave her my home. I was also able to get the caseworker changed because of the political activity and she got her children so fast we were in shock.

Caseworkers hold the power of tyranny. Every decision made is based on what is in a file and the caseworker controls what is in the file. Those files are written to make the caseworker look good and justified. As I came to understand this, I learned what logic has to do with justice. The caseworker had said she denied me visits with the children in November because of what I did in December. When I pointed out, a decision in November cannot be based on what happens in December, the caseworker was finally changed, and immediately everything changed, because the next caseworker also held all the power to make whatever decisions he wanted to make. He just made totally different decisions that returned the children to my daughter. However, the damage done by well-meaning people put my family deeper and deeper into hell. My daughter who needed to respect and appreciate me, felt even justified to rebel against me. Now, unfortunately, her youngest child is making her life hell. So now I speak against women's liberation and in favor of family values! We need to understand family duties and we need to keep the state out of our lives!

PS the second time the children were taken, I was immediately called and the children were put in my custody until my daughter got her act together and she could return to being a mother. The problem was not me, but a changing world without strong family values and meth and well-meaning people with their own axes to grind, and the schools believing they are better authorities over the children than parents and federal laws that prevent schools from working with grandparents, and laws that prevented police from picking up runaway children, and federal laws that fast line children into adoption with the mentality of slave trading. Law after law has shifted the control of our lives from parents to the state and there is no public awareness of this.
Athena, I think they issues you're discussing are not quite the same as what the OP is discussing. Also, I'm not sure what you're talking about is something someone would consider "family values" but laws regarding families. I also do not know your particular situation, so I don't feel I can comment on it.
 
Feb 2014
2,473
1,145
Oregon
#24
Regarding the opioid crisis that seems to be the main driver in the article, that is not a failing of people's values. Addiction to these substances is the result of people being prescribed to them for whatever medical reason. A friend of mine just lost his brother this very thing. He was involved in a train accident and had to be hospitalized. He was treated with opioids for pain and was addicted before he even left the hospital. The doctors continued to prescribe the medication afterward. He accidentally overdosed one night in his apartment. That's not a moral failing, that's a failing of our health care system and the pharmaceutical companies that push this garbage. His doctors caused another disease, addiction, while trying to treat another problem. And they didn't stop prescribing it. This is a person who would never have sought out these drugs in the first place. It's not as if he was looking to "party".

That is the particular problem that needs be addressed in the present. That seems to be the main driver according to the article. What we need to do is get these drugs out of our health care system and then help the people who are addicted to them. That is something we don't do well in this country because people such as yourself view this as a moral failing on the part of the addicted. Most of those addicted never asked for this to happen to them. They trusted their medical professionals. Addiction is a disease, like any other. If there is any moral failing here, it is on the part of drug companies, who only see dollar signs. So if you're looking to place moral blame, place it on the right people.
Excuse me! You can not possibly know what I think. :lol: It is hard for me to be that sure of what I think.

I do believe our nation is in moral crisis and that this directly related to the powers behind the Military Industrial Complex and their control of public education. I know increasingly laws and policies have shifted power and authority from the individual to the state. I know problems involving alcoholism, and legal and illegal drugs, have been devastating to individuals and families and that this seems to demand state intervention. Unfortunately, I know far more about the drug crisis than I want to know, because of dealing with addicted family members and neighbors, and the education crisis in inner city schools, and the homeless problems. I am not sure of the cause of severe mental problems that some of my grandchildren experience if it is heredity or drugs taken the mothers, or the bad experience caused by the foster care system, but I know more about the problems than I want to know.

I know having a sense of purpose can make a huge difference in our lives. Having a sense of purpose is vital to recovering from addiction or avoiding it in the first place. I know past education attempted to instill a sense of purpose in your young so we would have a strong and united nation and know past generations benefited from that education. I know economic depressions and wars, wreck havoc on individual and national morality.

The drug companies and their connection with the government is a major problem but not the only one. The medical system has become excessive impersonal and is also part of the problem. However, a high school drop out can make meth. It doesn't require an expensive lab or equipment.

I know the power of addiction because I smoked cigarettes for many years, until the health of a child gave me enough sense of purpose to stop smoking. Without that child, I would have done anything to get my fix of nicotine because when the craving hits nothing is more important than stopping the craving. It seems clear to me, for many people opium, heroin, meth, are even worse addictions. I am strongly in favor of the family treatment program we have for drug-addicted mothers who can keep their children with them while they are in recovery. I think we are still totally failing the fathers, and that in part, is a lack of family values.

Now if you want to argue with me, please expect me to see all sides of a picture, and to know there is a good and bad in everything. Pick a statement to argue and then give your reason for disagreeing without assuming you know more about what I think than you can possibly know.
 
Feb 2014
2,473
1,145
Oregon
#25
Athena, I think they issues you're discussing are not quite the same as what the OP is discussing. Also, I'm not sure what you're talking about is something someone would consider "family values" but laws regarding families. I also do not know your particular situation, so I don't feel I can comment on it.

Do you mean you want further explanation of my position or that I should stop posting in this thread because my thoughts are not relevant?

Maybe I spent too much time in the east? I do not think in terms of this or that, but the interaction of yin and yang. Our former industrial society pushed the division of task into the division of families, with fathers supporting the family and women being responsible for the families well being. That social order became our understanding of the differences in gender nature and there was some good and some bad in that. Hell, it is pointless isn't it? People here are never going to get what social order has to do with anything, nor are they likely to think in terms of yan and yang instead of this or that, good or bad, right or wrong.
 
May 2018
4,062
2,496
Chicago
#26
Do you mean you want further explanation of my position or that I should stop posting in this thread because my thoughts are not relevant?

Maybe I spent too much time in the east? I do not think in terms of this or that, but the interaction of yin and yang. Our former industrial society pushed the division of task into the division of families, with fathers supporting the family and women being responsible for the families well being. That social order became our understanding of the differences in gender nature and there was some good and some bad in that. Hell, it is pointless isn't it? People here are never going to get what social order has to do with anything, nor are they likely to think in terms of yan and yang instead of this or that, good or bad, right or wrong.
Clearly this thread has struck a nerve, not my intention. I still am not sure we're talking about the same thing here. "Family values" to me (and many others in the US) means "mom, dad, and however many kids", and anything outside of that is condemned, wrong and evil. I think you are talking about something completely different from that.
 
Feb 2014
2,473
1,145
Oregon
#27
Clearly this thread has struck a nerve, not my intention. I still am not sure we're talking about the same thing here. "Family values" to me (and many others in the US) means "mom, dad, and however many kids", and anything outside of that is condemned, wrong and evil. I think you are talking about something completely different from that.
I think what is important to this thread is individual power verse state power. The crisis brought on by drugs that has completely overwhelmed the protective services. The role the federal government has played in weakening family values, and finally, decisions made by bureaucrats with slave trading mentality about what to do with a child. At this time, foster parents must complete a training and in the training I took, people were told they would probably be able to adopt the child, because that is how to get the most people to commit to being a foster parent. The state's job is to find people willing to adopt the children and the federal government has set the mandate of doing this within a year. In the past, children have been sent to other states to make this process as easy as possible, avoiding mess problems with parents.

Opposing family values to defend gay rights is problematic and also victim thinking. It is trying to avoid a problem, not resolve it. Weak family values are the worse possible thing and wouldn't the gay community benefit from strong family values and the notion that no matter what, we are family and we do not turn our backs on each other!? When families are weak there is nothing to stop the victimization of people or stop the government from running our lives and doing with the children as an impersonal bureaucracy sees fit. When family values are weak, there is no social pressure to overcome our human weaknesses and be our better selves. No reason to not treat children like pets that can be ignored while we indulge our own desires. Being a family member demands a lot from us and means sacrificing what we want for the good of others. A lack of family values makes us less fit as members of a family, and this, in turn, demands the government intervene.

The bureaucrats are trained to be impersonal. Every precaution is taken to avoid emotional attachments, including relocating children if a child and foster parent begin to bond unless from the beginning the goal is for the foster parent to become the adoptive parent. The bureaucrats themselves can loose their jobs if they do not remain impersonal and many of them are on drugs to avoid feelings. I first learned of the value of impersonalness from a book written for teachers. Then I studied public policy and administration at the U of O. I have also experienced loosing a job for being too friendly. I swear to god, in the bureaucratic power above us, the drive is to be impersonal and to report on each other as the Germans did. Our is to obey, not to question why.

What do you think is the solution if it is not strengthening family values? Do you imagine a separation of family values and human values? Are family values about our humanness?
 
Jul 2018
985
250
Earth
#28
You got any proof on this claim ?? The CPS workers I ever knew were seriously overworked and very underpaid. Doing a thankless, difficult and heart rending job for not a lot of money. Bonuses for adding to their work loads ?? Yeah we need to see some proof of that !!
Here are several links, read and decide =

  • that The Adoption and the Safe Families Act, set in motion first in 1974 by Walter Mondale and later in 1997 by President Bill Clinton, offered cash “bonuses” to the states for every child they adopted out of foster care. In order to receive the “adoption incentive bonuses” local child protective services need more children. They must have merchandise (children) that sells and you must have plenty so the buyer can choose. Some counties are known to give a $4,000 to $6,000 bonus for each child adopted out to strangers and an additional $2,000 for a “special needs” child. Employees work to keep the federal dollars flowing;
  • State Departments of Human Resources (DHR) and affiliates are given a baseline number of expected adoptions based on population. For every child DHR and CPS can get adopted, there is the bonus of $4,000 or maybe $6,000. But that is only the beginning figure in the formula in which each bonus is multiplied by the percentage that the State has managed to exceed its baseline adoption number. Therefore States and local communities work hard to reach their goals for increased numbers of adoptions for children in foster care.
  • The Corrupt Business of Child Protective Services
"Most people do not know or believe that states are paid bonuses for every child they adopt away from their parents and/ or families, and that states are raking in MILLIONS of dollars with these bonuses. Here is the proof from the Government’s website for Social Security. They even call it “Incentive Payments”. "
Yes, Bonuses ARE given to states for adopting children away!

Social Workers getting paid extra per child taken from parents and placed into adoption be in part motivation for the FLDS raid?
Social Workers getting paid extra per child taken from parents and placed into adoption be in part motivation for the FLDS raid?


Ten Things Everyone Should Know About Child Protective Services
Ten Things Everyone Should Know About Child Protective Services
 
Likes: kbear
May 2018
4,062
2,496
Chicago
#29
I think what is important to this thread is individual power verse state power. The crisis brought on by drugs that has completely overwhelmed the protective services. The role the federal government has played in weakening family values, and finally, decisions made by bureaucrats with slave trading mentality about what to do with a child. At this time, foster parents must complete a training and in the training I took, people were told they would probably be able to adopt the child, because that is how to get the most people to commit to being a foster parent. The state's job is to find people willing to adopt the children and the federal government has set the mandate of doing this within a year. In the past, children have been sent to other states to make this process as easy as possible, avoiding mess problems with parents.

Opposing family values to defend gay rights is problematic and also victim thinking. It is trying to avoid a problem, not resolve it. Weak family values are the worse possible thing and wouldn't the gay community benefit from strong family values and the notion that no matter what, we are family and we do not turn our backs on each other!? When families are weak there is nothing to stop the victimization of people or stop the government from running our lives and doing with the children as an impersonal bureaucracy sees fit. When family values are weak, there is no social pressure to overcome our human weaknesses and be our better selves. No reason to not treat children like pets that can be ignored while we indulge our own desires. Being a family member demands a lot from us and means sacrificing what we want for the good of others. A lack of family values makes us less fit as members of a family, and this, in turn, demands the government intervene.

The bureaucrats are trained to be impersonal. Every precaution is taken to avoid emotional attachments, including relocating children if a child and foster parent begin to bond unless from the beginning the goal is for the foster parent to become the adoptive parent. The bureaucrats themselves can loose their jobs if they do not remain impersonal and many of them are on drugs to avoid feelings. I first learned of the value of impersonalness from a book written for teachers. Then I studied public policy and administration at the U of O. I have also experienced loosing a job for being too friendly. I swear to god, in the bureaucratic power above us, the drive is to be impersonal and to report on each other as the Germans did. Our is to obey, not to question why.

What do you think is the solution if it is not strengthening family values? Do you imagine a separation of family values and human values? Are family values about our humanness?
I didn't say anything about weakening family values. Like I said, I don't think we're communication very well. We're not talking about the same thing at all.
 
Feb 2014
2,473
1,145
Oregon
#30
3. You Do Not Have to Let CPS in the Door
CPS has no special right to enter your home without your permission, and you can say no to them. Workers do not have a right to obtain search warrants. You can be cooperative with the investigation without letting an investigator walk inside your door.

Ten Things Everyone Should Know About Child Protective Services
So the day my grandchildren were put in my care by the caseworker, she returned with gun-toting police that night, after the children were asleep in bed. The children were woken and removed. The law states this can not be done against the will of the adult in charge unless the children are in immediate danger. There was no immediate danger, and I did not give them permission to take the children. The children were hidden in a temporary foster home in another city. For young children, it doesn't matter why they are abducted. Good guy or bad guy, the experience is the same for the children. The children were unnecessarily traumatized and for almost a year, they did not get all the advantages I would have given them. When they were returned to their mother, they were like wounded animals, not like civilized children. If it had not been for my political activity and ability to give my daughter a home, we would have lost them for life.

I want to stress, the law was ignored and at no point was there any effort to investigate this fact. I want to stress the children had an attorney and this paid attorney made no effort to speak with me. I want to add, I had united with many people, Grandparents for Family Justice, and heard many horror stories. Too often the a parents attorney did not understand the protective service policy and gave parents the wrong advice, costing the custody of their children. Because of our political work, grandparents now have better rights, and because the department had to work with them, they realized their past opinion of grandparents was wrong. I want to stress strong families are important to the protection of children.

As the link says- the people are human and they make errors and I will add, when they do make errors, there isn't much that can be done by the family when errors are made. I will also add, sometimes the error is choosing a bad foster home and the children die. Sometimes the error is taking away visitation rights, leaving the children less protected. Sometimes the error is not removing the child from a dangerous parent and the child dies. I will stress again, strong families are important to the protection of children.
 
Likes: kbear

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