Amber Guyger Guilty of murder

May 2018
7,017
4,836
Chicago
It is interesting to think about this Amber Guyger scenario from a few different configurarions:

1. white male cop, young black male victim
2. black male cop, white female victim
3. black female cop, white male victim
4. white female cop, white female victim

I suspect the underlying atmosphere of the department was that females are inferior cops.
She was a new cop as I recall. It is entirely possible that Guyger was influenced by a need to prove her ability to use lethal force. However, that should be seen as a problem with the department and hostile work environment, not entirely her fault.
Because she has no mind of her own? From what you're saying, she had no business on the force in the first place.
 
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Jul 2019
4,829
2,479
Georgia
I'm not sure what they're like now, but go find a couple of police forums. It's been a few years since I checked out any. But after reading some of the crap they post about "civilians," it's scary.
I don't disagree that their jobs are scary, and I respect those who risk their lives to keep us safe.

And there are times when they have to make a split-second decision. I just hope training is improving so they're not so jumpy and trigger happy, and end up taking innocent civilian lives because of that.
 
Sep 2019
913
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Here
I don't disagree that their jobs are scary, and I respect those who risk their lives to keep us safe.

And there are times when they have to make a split-second decision. I just hope training is improving so they're not so jumpy and trigger happy, and end up taking innocent civilian lives because of that.
I got nothing but respect for good cops. And you'll never see me bash one.

But the bad cops, screw them. I'll call them out every single time. Even a good cop who won't report a bad one.
 
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Nov 2018
4,913
2,611
Rocky Mountains
Because she has no mind of her own? From what you're saying, she had no business on the force in the first place.
The system is biased toward police violence, regardless of how absurd the situation.
I am not defending her actions as correct, desirable, or beneficial.

I am trying to put her trial into the context of hundreds of trials of police officers who have used excessive force. There is tremendous tolerance in America for police violence that is explained solely because the police feel threatened.

I don't agree with that reasoning. However, the Supreme Court has supported "threat" as a validation and literally hundreds of trials of police officers have, at best, found the individual guilty of manslaughter. A murder conviction is almost unprecedented.
Furthermore, the "threat as a justification for lethal force" has been extended to citizens under Stand Your Ground Laws. It is a pervasive misconception in our gun-filled society.
 
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Nov 2018
4,913
2,611
Rocky Mountains
So if I walk into my neighbor's house, thinking it is my own and kill them, it's just manslaughter? I mean, it kind of looked like my house after all. I don't have to ask why they might be there? Ya know, like they own the place? Are you serious?

Does what you're saying mean that I can be killed by my neighbor just because they thought they lived in my house, therefore they are somehow justified in killing me? Are we really having this conversation?

I'm sorry, but NO. No one should ever enter someone else's residence and be able to kill them. This woman did not even stop to think. She just acted. If someone came into your house and did this to you and your family, would you really argue manslaughter? Seriously?

My god, I cannot even believe this is a debate.

This woman walked into someone's apartment that was not hers and killed them. That is the bottom line. That's murder. She trespassed on someone else's property and killed someone for NO reason. Or maybe you think Botham Jean had no right to expect to be safe in his home?

If someone walks into your house thinking it's theirs and kills you, you don't think that's murder? Explain that to me. If someone did that to my roommate, cop or otherwise, I'd call for murder too, as there was no justification whatsoever. You would too. Don't lie.
Entering the wrong house would be an unusual (perhaps unprecedented) application of the "Castle Doctrine" but it was considered as an allowable defense argument in the Guyger trial*. I am not arguing for that reasoning, I am trying to look at the historical treatment of similar cases. Mostly manslaughter involves negligence and error while murder seems to involve more intentional purpose to end someone's life. I agree with you that entering someone's house should not be excusable, however "mens rea" (the state of mind of the person committing a crime) is central to the legal process.

The Texas Ranger who was investigating the case did not think that ANY charges whatsoever were justified**-- that is an example of how much police violence has become tolerated and ingrained in American society

*Judge Allows Amber Guyger to Use 'Castle Doctrine' Defense in Trial for Mistaken Apartment Killing | National Review

**Texas Rangers Investigator Doesn’t Believe Amber Guyger Committed A Crime When She Shot, Killed Botham Jean
 
Nov 2018
4,913
2,611
Rocky Mountains
Because she has no mind of her own? From what you're saying, she had no business on the force in the first place.
She may have been a dingbat and incompetent, but so far I have not seen anything reported about her record to suggest that she was a dangerous, violent, incompetent or irrational police officer. If she was indoctrinated to shoot to kill at ANY perceived threat, then she was a victim of the fear propaganda of police training. Admittedly, it is hard to teach judgment and much easier to teach simple muscle memory threat response.
 
Jul 2018
2,389
603
Earth
The good news is that Amber is now in her new apartment in the Mountain View prison at least for the next five years. If she barges into someone else's room there she might get a good ass-whipping.
 
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