Are There Problems With the Boeing 737 Max? A Second Deadly Crash Raises New Questions

Oct 2010
67,329
27,219
Colorado
#1
Right now, I wouldn't fly on one. Plus, being 6'5, I hate flying on a 737 anyway.

Are There Problems With the Boeing 737 Max? A Second Deadly Crash Raises New Questions
When an airplane carrying at least 150 people crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday, killing all aboard, it was the second time in less than six months that this particular plane model was involved in a catastrophic accident.​
The plane, a Boeing 737 Max 8, was the same model that crashed in Indonesia in October, killing 189 people.​
In both cases, brand-new planes faltered minutes after takeoff and plunged into a deadly descent, leaving no survivors.​
The investigation into both cases is continuing, but the latest crash renewed questions about the safety of the 737 Max, which Boeing unveiled in 2017 and sold as a fuel-efficient, technologically advanced upgrade to its popular 737.​

More: Are There Problems With the Boeing 737 Max? A Second Deadly Crash Raises New Questions
 
Apr 2014
3,170
1,364
redacted
#2
Since both accidents happened in the same phase of flight and are similar in what happened to them, there is cause for concern. However, since both were maintained by Third World Airlines, there could be another factor....even though Ethiopian has an excellent maintenance and service record.
 
Apr 2013
37,519
25,575
La La Land North
#3
I was under the impression that the other crash was because of the autopilot being set incorrectly. The dispute last I heard was whether Boeing was at fault for not giving sufficient training/instruction on this new autopilot or were the crew just inept.

This will be interesting. My brother-in-law, an air force lifer was on the team investigation all air force crashes. He had some interesting stories to tell and I have kept up my interest in the causes of air crashes, as much as info released to the public allows.
 
Jun 2018
5,451
1,273
South Dakota
#4
Both being carriers in the third world is a it suspicious but Boeing doesn't have the luxury of trying to skew the data.
Ironically, I'm binge watching The Widow the plot for which revolves around a 737 crash in the jungle of central Africa soon after takeoff. Weird.
 
Nov 2013
1,356
377
El Paso, TX
#5
All technology produced by modern Western culture in the last 15 years is overcomplicated unreliable garbage. Evil cultures cannot design good things.
 
Nov 2012
10,654
8,832
nirvana
#6
Right now, I wouldn't fly on one. Plus, being 6'5, I hate flying on a 737 anyway.

Are There Problems With the Boeing 737 Max? A Second Deadly Crash Raises New Questions
When an airplane carrying at least 150 people crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday, killing all aboard, it was the second time in less than six months that this particular plane model was involved in a catastrophic accident.​
The plane, a Boeing 737 Max 8, was the same model that crashed in Indonesia in October, killing 189 people.​
In both cases, brand-new planes faltered minutes after takeoff and plunged into a deadly descent, leaving no survivors.​
The investigation into both cases is continuing, but the latest crash renewed questions about the safety of the 737 Max, which Boeing unveiled in 2017 and sold as a fuel-efficient, technologically advanced upgrade to its popular 737.​

More: Are There Problems With the Boeing 737 Max? A Second Deadly Crash Raises New Questions
From what I'm hearing there was conflicting information with the air speed indicators. This model is equipped with the MCAS computer system that pushes the nose back down, even if the pilot is pulling up. We'll see what NTSB finds out when they look at the data recorder.
 
Jun 2018
5,451
1,273
South Dakota
#7
From what I'm hearing there was conflicting information with the air speed indicators. This model is equipped with the MCAS computer system that pushes the nose back down, even if the pilot is pulling up. We'll see what NTSB finds out when they look at the data recorder.
As I heard it, the system can be turned off manually. Pilot training or simply freezing at the controls when the aircraft fails to respond might eventually be a factor. Here's a good article that explains how it works and that the system can be manually shut off.
What is the Boeing 737 Max Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System?
A friend who was a factory rep for Bendix when the DC10 was being certified for CAT 3 landings explained in detail the issues with the autopilot and telemetry interfaces they were using. Sounded like a real bugbox to me but it worked quite well.
 
Sep 2017
2,259
1,143
Hell
#8
The 737 Max 8 is just an updated version of the 737-800. All new versions of the 737's are designated "Max's" in order indicate the model-wide refinements in engine, aerodynamic and structural refinements. Thus new 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, etc are designated Max 7, Max 8, Max 9, etc.

With Boeing, each progression in number such as 700, 800, etc means an increase in fuselage length to accommodate for more seats, cargo space, fuel and range. One thing that does not change is the length of the extended landing gears and the standing height of the plane regardless of fuselage length. What this means is that the longer that particular is, the less forgiving it is to angle of tilt as it lifts off the runway. The original 737 was a very short plane designed for smaller airports with shorter runways, but from the 800's onward, they are known for 'tail strikes". That is when the rear end of the fuselage under the vertical tail strikes the ground either when either taking off or landing. It takes retraining and a lot more discipline in attack angles when moving up in fuselage length.

By the way, the new AF1 to be is based on 747-800 which partially allowed Boeing it to reclaim the title of largest civilian commercial plane from the Airbus 380 due to the Boeing 737-800 adding fuselage length to be just longer than Airbus 380.
 
Apr 2014
3,170
1,364
redacted
#9
I was under the impression that the other crash was because of the autopilot being set incorrectly. The dispute last I heard was whether Boeing was at fault for not giving sufficient training/instruction on this new autopilot or were the crew just inept.

This will be interesting. My brother-in-law, an air force lifer was on the team investigation all air force crashes. He had some interesting stories to tell and I have kept up my interest in the causes of air crashes, as much as info released to the public allows.
It's not the fault of the manufacturer if their crews are untrained. It's only the fault of the manufacturer to lie about its product be it deliberate or through negligence.
 
Jun 2018
5,451
1,273
South Dakota
#10
It's not the fault of the manufacturer if their crews are untrained. It's only the fault of the manufacturer to lie about its product be it deliberate or through negligence.
I'd be interested in hearing about the number of times the system has caused a false stall warning that didn't result in a crash or even an emergency shutdown of the system. Avionics recorder data analysis on the -8 series might show a pattern.