Are There Problems With the Boeing 737 Max? A Second Deadly Crash Raises New Questions

Apr 2014
3,170
1,364
redacted
#21
It appears Trump considers himself smarter than all the aeronautical engineers and pilots:

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

....needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!
 
Nov 2012
10,596
8,760
nirvana
#22
If there have been problems reported with it, that would be a good idea. As it is, if a problem develops, it can be easily turned off.
Even as an amateur pilot, I know you don’t trim the aircraft until you have climbed out, and reach a level flight path. I can only assume that should be the case with this system as it only seems to be part of the trim package that lowers the nose to gain airspeed, if the computer senses the aircraft is losing airspeed and could stall. You certainly aren’t going to lower the nose at full throttle take off. If this is a training issue, then who is ultimately responsible for the training in a new plane with new equipment.

And why would a new computer system not be programmed to sense the plane is at take off and climb out thrust?

When I engage the brake pedal in my truck, the cruise control knows to disengage. I’m having a hard time just excusing this as a training issue.
 
Likes: imaginethat
Oct 2010
67,031
27,050
Colorado
#23
"...a lot of smoke coming from the back...."

First eyewitness accounts I've read.

Doomed Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 was seen “swerving and dipping” as smoke billowed from the massive aircraft just moments before it crashed, a witness said Monday — as officials revealed they’ve recovered the damaged black box and a cockpit voice recorder.
“Before it crashed the plane was swerving and dipping with a lot of smoke coming from the back and also making a very loud unpleasant sound before hitting the ground,” Gebeyehu Fikadu, 25, told CNN.
Flight data suggested the Boeing 737 MAX 8 wildly gained and lost altitude, but Fikadu’s recounting was one of the first eyewitness accounts of the crash. All 157 people aboard, including at least eight Americans who have not yet been publicly identified, were killed.​
Another witness, Tamrat Abera, said smoke was pouring out of the back of the plane before it crashed.​
“Before falling down, the plane rotated two times in the air and it had some smoke coming from the back, then it hit the ground and exploded,” Abera said. “When the villagers and I arrived at the site, there was nothing except some burning and flesh.”​

More: https://nypost.com/2019/03/11/doome...swerving-and-dipping-in-moments-before-crash/
 
Apr 2014
3,170
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redacted
#24
Even as an amateur pilot, I know you don’t trim the aircraft until you have climbed out, and reach a level flight path. I can only assume that should be the case with this system as it only seems to be part of the trim package that lowers the nose to gain airspeed, if the computer senses the aircraft is losing airspeed and could stall. You certainly aren’t going to lower the nose at full throttle take off. If this is a training issue, then who is ultimately responsible for the training in a new plane with new equipment.

And why would a new computer system not be programmed to sense the plane is at take off and climb out thrust?

When I engage the brake pedal in my truck, the cruise control knows to disengage. I’m having a hard time just excusing this as a training issue.
That's not quite correct. You know you can trim the aircraft in the climb, right? Larger aircraft will not only have electric trim but trim in all 3-axis. A pilot should never have to "muscle-fuck" the controls if they are properly using the trim system.

The computer is programmed to know flight modes and when it's on the ground and at what speed.

These systems can be turned off at the touch of a button if they don't kick themselves off by going outside of limits.
 
Jun 2018
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South Dakota
#25
Even as an amateur pilot, I know you don’t trim the aircraft until you have climbed out, and reach a level flight path. I can only assume that should be the case with this system as it only seems to be part of the trim package that lowers the nose to gain airspeed, if the computer senses the aircraft is losing airspeed and could stall. You certainly aren’t going to lower the nose at full throttle take off. If this is a training issue, then who is ultimately responsible for the training in a new plane with new equipment.

And why would a new computer system not be programmed to sense the plane is at take off and climb out thrust?

When I engage the brake pedal in my truck, the cruise control knows to disengage. I’m having a hard time just excusing this as a training issue.
The condition that required the automatic stall correction only occurs under 100% power. That's virtually always at takeoff and low altitude. The problems with the system seem to center around the sensor systems. An expert on Fox just described that the training and hrs requirements are set by the countries aviation bureaus. He made the comment that he has no issue with using a US flagged airline due to the strict regulation here. The ducks are lining up to call pilot error and if what they're saying about the situation is true I agree.
 
Jun 2018
5,340
1,245
South Dakota
#27
In the interest of safety and piece of mind, frequent flyers may want to keep these airlines in mind before making reservations:

American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Norwegian Airlines, TUI, Silk Air, Fiji Airways, Icelandair, Flydubai, and WestJet

Is your airline still flying the Boeing 737 MAX 8?
The Airlines who are not US flagged might be suspect due to regulations that can allow the pilot quals and training that contribute to the problem.
I was never able to specifically get the dash number of the aircraft I'm to be on, just the type. I used to like certain models of a product due to noise and different seats on certain models of the same type. The last time I flew (last year) they did list the model.
 
Apr 2013
37,209
25,383
La La Land North
#28
It appears Trump considers himself smarter than all the aeronautical engineers and pilots:

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are....

....needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!
I just posted those. Sorry.
 
Apr 2014
3,170
1,364
redacted
#29
The condition that required the automatic stall correction only occurs under 100% power. That's virtually always at takeoff and low altitude. The problems with the system seem to center around the sensor systems. An expert on Fox just described that the training and hrs requirements are set by the countries aviation bureaus. He made the comment that he has no issue with using a US flagged airline due to the strict regulation here. The ducks are lining up to call pilot error and if what they're saying about the situation is true I agree.
IIRC, the copilot had 200 hours total flight time. Minimum in the US is 1500 hours for airline pilots.
 
Nov 2012
10,596
8,760
nirvana
#30
In the interest of safety and piece of mind, frequent flyers may want to keep these airlines in mind before making reservations:

American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Norwegian Airlines, TUI, Silk Air, Fiji Airways, Icelandair, Flydubai, and WestJet

Is your airline still flying the Boeing 737 MAX 8?
This should have been sold as a new plane. The engines are moved forward on the wings, and they are more powerful. In a light load on this model it pushes the nose up very quickly which could lead to a stall which is why the MCAS
The Airlines who are not US flagged might be suspect due to regulations that can allow the pilot quals and training that contribute to the problem.
I was never able to specifically get the dash number of the aircraft I'm to be on, just the type. I used to like certain models of a product due to noise and different seats on certain models of the same type. The last time I flew (last year) they did list the model.
It appears that this specific model Max 8, had more powerful engines installed, and they were installed more to the front of the wings. This would cause the nose of the aircraft to want to rise more quickly, which could cause a stall. To counter this, the engineers at Boeing, installed the MCAS system to counter this. Boeing should have introduced this as a new plane, but to avoid the regulations, and associated costs, they sold it as the same plane with upgrades. With 56% of the total fleet currently grounded, and Boeing stock losing 8% of its value today. It will be a hard sell that both crashes are due solely to pilot error. We shall see.