Astronomers Discover Incredibly Rare ‘Fossil Cloud’ Created Minutes After the Big Bang

Dec 2013
32,134
18,934
Beware of watermelons
#31
The scientific method, in a nut shell, starts with a suggestion or idea. An individual comes up with an idea. From there they ask themselves, "Well if this idea is true, I should expect to find evidence for A, B, C, and D." They then create a model or formula to test their idea and find out if indeed they can find evidence for A, B, C, and D. If they are successful, the idea becomes a hypothesis.

From here the individual writes a paper to share their hypothesis, model and evidence with the scientific community. The community replicates the research, builds the same models, builds new models, attempting to see if they same A, B, C, and D evidence is produced. If the same evidence is produced (this is what's known as "demonstrable") the hypothesis graduates to a theory.

To be clear, the scientific method does not try to determine absolute certainty. A theory is the best possible explanation given the data that is available.

The Big Bang Theory is the leading cosmological model that explains how the observable universe came into existence. The model also provides explanations for previously unexplained phenomena in the universe. The below article from UCLA gives a brief summary for said phenomena:

Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology
Sure. But it is all theoretical. And as i said earlier. What i take issue with is when people talk of these things w/ such certainty.

Here is the title

Astronomers Discover Incredibly Rare ‘Fossil Cloud’ Created Minutes After the Big Bang
There is absolutely no way they could know that. 1.) They do not know the big bang to be true 2.) If they do not know the big bang to be true how could they know down to the minutes when this fossil cloud was "created" 3.) They have no way to know down to the minutes when the universe was created much less how it was created. It is ridiculous.

It is absolutely propitious to think that people here on earth know much of anything w/o a shadow of doubt about the goings on in our solar system much less things in other galaxys.

It frustrates me to hear people babble about these things. Do you know that no black hole has ever been discovered? Yet, they are talked about as if they are real as rain. There is a lot of stuff like this. The skepticism has unfortunately been removed from science in the last few years.
 
Dec 2018
1,273
797
Wisconsin
#33
Sure. But it is all theoretical.
If by theoretical you mean it is the best possible explanation for what we experience in the universe, given the data we have, then yes. It's all theoretical.

There is absolutely no way they could know that. 1.) They do not know the big bang to be true 2.) If they do not know the big bang to be true how could they know down to the minutes when this fossil cloud was "created" 3.) They have no way to know down to the minutes when the universe was created much less how it was created. It is ridiculous.
1. Correct. We don't KNOW the big bang is true. But we know that given the evidence that is available, it is the best explanation. And when put in model after model, it explains several things about the universe that were previously unexplained.
2. If the big bang is the best explanation for how the universe came into existence, it can be calculated the age of various objects, particles and phenomina
3. To say "there's no way to know" is fair and unfair. On the one hand, as I've said, science doesn't attempt to find absolute certainty. It attempts to find the best possible explanation. On the other hand science can determine, down to the minute, when this have or could happen. For example the moon/planet Pluto hasn't even had one full orbit around the sun since it was first discovered, but scientists can tell you to the minute when and where it will be in it's orbit.

Do you know that no black hole has ever been discovered?
uhhhhhhh... no. There are several verified black holes. Below is a link to the closest one
Where is the closest black hole?
 
Likes: imaginethat
Jun 2018
741
237
Toronto
#34
Yup. But they kinda didnt too

If you mean they weren't "there at that moment", there is no point to try to talk about science at all. We weren't there when the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs fell. We weren't there when the first humans originated in Africa, when the sun formed etc etc etc. But we know about these events pretty well.

Here some links:
Planck (spacecraft) - Wikipedia

https://www.smh.com.au/national/pla...-big-bang-radiation-data-20150216-13gffj.html
 
Likes: imaginethat
Dec 2018
1,273
797
Wisconsin
#35
If you mean they weren't "there at that moment", there is no point to try to talk about science at all. We weren't there when the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs fell. We weren't there when the first humans originated in Africa, when the sun formed etc etc etc. But we know about these events pretty well.

Here some links:
Planck (spacecraft) - Wikipedia

https://www.smh.com.au/national/pla...-big-bang-radiation-data-20150216-13gffj.html
We weren't there when, allegedly, Adam and Eve picked an apple while sun-bathing in fig leafs. That doesn't stop people from saying it happened.
 
Oct 2010
65,466
26,080
Colorado
#36
Sure. But it is all theoretical. And as i said earlier. What i take issue with is when people talk of these things w/ such certainty.

Here is the title

Astronomers Discover Incredibly Rare ‘Fossil Cloud’ Created Minutes After the Big Bang
There is absolutely no way they could know that. 1.) They do not know the big bang to be true 2.) If they do not know the big bang to be true how could they know down to the minutes when this fossil cloud was "created" 3.) They have no way to know down to the minutes when the universe was created much less how it was created. It is ridiculous.

It is absolutely propitious to think that people here on earth know much of anything w/o a shadow of doubt about the goings on in our solar system much less things in other galaxys.

It frustrates me to hear people babble about these things. Do you know that no black hole has ever been discovered? Yet, they are talked about as if they are real as rain. There is a lot of stuff like this. The skepticism has unfortunately been removed from science in the last few years.
Only a closed and fearful mind would claim that skepticism has been removed from science ... in the last few years. The explosion of data ... in the last few years ... is unprecedented and, it doesn't stop. The rate is accelerating.

Every scientist knows that she or he can make a name for herself or himself if they can use observation-based science to overturn or cast substantial doubt on accepted theories. Unlike too many people, science stays in a continuous mode of self-correction.


Astronomers find the brightest quasar yet
Researchers announced this week (January 9, 2019) at the 233rd meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Seattle, Washington, that they’ve discovered the brightest quasar yet known, detected from the period when the universe was just beginning to make luminous objects, such as stars and galaxies. Quasars are thought to be the bright cores of early active galaxies, powered by central, supermassive black holes. The extreme brightness of quasars – so bright that we can see them across a distance corresponding to most of the history of the universe – is believed to come from hot material falling into black holes. The newly discovered super-bright quasar is catalogued as J043947.08+163415.7. It shines with light equivalent to 600 trillion suns, from a distance 12.8 billion light-years from Earth.​
It now holds the record for being the brightest quasar in the early universe, and, astronomers say, it might hold this record for some years to come. Astronomer Xiaohui Fan at the University of Arizona’s Steward Observatory led the team that made the discovery. He commented:​
We don’t expect to find many quasars brighter than that in the whole observable universe.​

This bright and remote quasar is rare. Astronomers say they searched for 20 years for such a distant quasar before finding this one. They found it via a lucky alignment; a dim galaxy is located between us and the quasar. The light of the intervening galaxy bends the light from the quasar and makes the quasar appear three times as large and 50 times as bright as it would be without this gravitational lensing effect.​

Astronomers find the brightest quasar yet | EarthSky.org

For context, very large galaxies have around a trillion solar masses; our own galaxy 100-250 million solar masses.
 
Dec 2013
32,134
18,934
Beware of watermelons
#37
If by theoretical you mean it is the best possible explanation for what we experience in the universe, given the data we have, then yes. It's all theoretical.



1. Correct. We don't KNOW the big bang is true. But we know that given the evidence that is available, it is the best explanation. And when put in model after model, it explains several things about the universe that were previously unexplained.
2. If the big bang is the best explanation for how the universe came into existence, it can be calculated the age of various objects, particles and phenomina
3. To say "there's no way to know" is fair and unfair. On the one hand, as I've said, science doesn't attempt to find absolute certainty. It attempts to find the best possible explanation. On the other hand science can determine, down to the minute, when this have or could happen. For example the moon/planet Pluto hasn't even had one full orbit around the sun since it was first discovered, but scientists can tell you to the minute when and where it will be in it's orbit.


uhhhhhhh... no. There are several verified black holes. Below is a link to the closest one
Where is the closest black hole?

That is all i am saying. It's an idea. An educated guess and one must always be open to new information as nothing in science is settled.

It is when claims are made w/ such certainty that dogma follows. And because of this thinking science has taken on being a religion w/in itself. This is not good IMO.


I'll look into that black hole article. From my understanding is that the properties have been observed so the explanation has been bkack holes but one has not officially been discovered.
 
Dec 2013
32,134
18,934
Beware of watermelons
#39
Only a closed ahttps://earthsky.org/space/astronomers-find-the-brightest-quasar-yetd fearful mind would claim that skepticism has been removed from science ... in the last few years. The explosion of data ... in the last few years ... is unprecedented and, it doesn't stop. The rate is accelerating.

Every scientist knows that she or he can make a name for herself or himself if they can use observation-based science to overturn or cast substantial doubt on accepted theories. Unlike too many people, science stays in a continuous mode of self-correction.


Astronomers find the brightest quasar yet
Researchers announced this week (January 9, 2019) at the 233rd meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Seattle, Washington, that they’ve discovered the brightest quasar yet known, detected from the period when the universe was just beginning to make luminous objects, such as stars and galaxies. Quasars are thought to be the bright cores of early active galaxies, powered by central, supermassive black holes. The extreme brightness of quasars – so bright that we can see them across a distance corresponding to most of the history of the universe – is believed to come from hot material falling into black holes. The newly discovered super-bright quasar is catalogued as J043947.08+163415.7. It shines with light equivalent to 600 trillion suns, from a distance 12.8 billion light-years from Earth.​
It now holds the record for being the brightest quasar in the early universe, and, astronomers say, it might hold this record for some years to come. Astronomer Xiaohui Fan at the University of Arizona’s Steward Observatory led the team that made the discovery. He commented:​
We don’t expect to find many quasars brighter than that in the whole observable universe.​

This bright and remote quasar is rare. Astronomers say they searched for 20 years for such a distant quasar before finding this one. They found it via a lucky alignment; a dim galaxy is located between us and the quasar. The light of the intervening galaxy bends the light from the quasar and makes the quasar appear three times as large and 50 times as bright as it would be without this gravitational lensing effect.​

Astronomers find the brightest quasar yet | EarthSky.org

For context, very large galaxies have around a trillion solar masses; our own galaxy 100-250 million solar masses.
And that article is written how i would expect an honest one to be. Using terminology such as

Quasars are thought to be the bright cores of early active galaxies, powered by central, supermassive black holes.
 

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