"Both Sides are the Same"

Sep 2019
695
194
NYC
I know a lot of people who claim to be centrists, who really aren't.

Centrism is cool, but it's impossible to be a true centrist. trump's extremism has moved the balance of the scale anyway. Do we even know what a centrist is now? Any actual Centrists are labeled RINOs or straight Dems by trumpers.

If we want to talk Moderates, Obama was the most moderate President in recent history, by far. Almost too moderate for my liking.

~~~~~

Bothsideism can also be termed "balance fallacy"



I disagree, Obama was rather left. Bush, both of them were the same to the right, Trump is not extremist right but populist.


I remember a lot of people claiming to be libertarian for a while. I find most who claim it, aren't... (no true scotsman fallacy FTW!)
 
Jul 2019
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I disagree, Obama was rather left. Bush, both of them were the same to the right, Trump is not extremist right but populist.


I remember a lot of people claiming to be libertarian for a while. I find most who claim it, aren't... (no true scotsman fallacy FTW!)
A lot of people who had preconceived notions against Obama because he was a Dem (or other reasons), don't see how moderate he actually was

Study Shows Obama is the Most Moderate President

Klien called him a "moderate Republican"
(if you read the column, he's saying he was in line with early 90's Repubs, which is accurate, however with the shifting of the parties that occured afterwards, he could be more accurately described as a 2010's moderate Dem IMO, but the two weren't too terribly different)


here's the 1992 Republican platform for comparative purposes


~~~~

I claimed to be libertarian for a while, and I voted libertarian, but I also was in my late 20's early 30's and wasn't really into politics, so I'm not sure I really knew what I was talking about

which brings me back to calling "bothsideism" a lazy way of thinking. I was a "bothsideist" but I wasn't really paying attention anyway.
 
Sep 2019
695
194
NYC
A lot of people who had preconceived notions against Obama because he was a Dem (or other reasons), don't see how moderate he actually was

Study Shows Obama is the Most Moderate President

Klien called him a "moderate Republican"
(if you read the column, he's saying he was in line with early 90's Repubs, which is accurate, however with the shifting of the parties that occured afterwards, he could be more accurately described as a 2010's moderate Dem IMO, but the two weren't too terribly different)


here's the 1992 Republican platform for comparative purposes


~~~~

I claimed to be libertarian for a while, and I voted libertarian, but I also was in my late 20's early 30's and wasn't really into politics, so I'm not sure I really knew what I was talking about

which brings me back to calling "bothsideism" a lazy way of thinking. I was a "bothsideist" but I wasn't really paying attention anyway.


Oh, I don't think Obama was an extremist leftist. he ran way more extreme than he goverened. I think we are saying similar things, just disagreeing on degrees.


I was a libertarian.... I am still a libertarian. note the small "L".... I also think that people look at libertarians as if they are in a death cult, as in both republicans and democrats can have scales of support for issues, but when a libertarian is involved the opposition believes it's all or nothing.
 
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Jul 2019
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Oh, I don't think Obama was an extremist leftist. he ran way more extreme than he goverened. I think we are saying similar things, just disagreeing on degrees.


I was a libertarian.... I am still a libertarian. note the small "L".... I also think that people look at libertarians as if they are in a death cult, as in both republicans and democrats can have scales of support for issues, but when a libertarian is involved the opposition believes it's all or nothing.
it's funny because Hillary campaigned on a very moderate platform (not sure if she would have governed moderately had she won) but I think she did that because of Obama's approval, and his being a moderate.

makes me wonder how 2020 will go,

will a moderate platform be more appealing for trump's opponent, if America is tired of extremism and constant drama,

or something more left to counter his extremism?
 
Sep 2019
695
194
NYC
it's funny because Hillary campaigned on a very moderate platform (not sure if she would have governed moderately had she won) but I think she did that because of Obama's approval, and his being a moderate.

makes me wonder how 2020 will go,

will a moderate platform be more appealing for trump's opponent, if America is tired of extremism and constant drama,

or something more left to counter his extremism?


Well warren is trying to repair the damage hillary did to the blue wall. her biggest mistake was forsaking the white working class vote who voted for obama, then trump. so she's at least seeing the issue. Her problem among others is she's quite far left in comparison. The dems best chance is to scrap the table and start again. looking at donations, they are in trouble.

And to me that boggles the mind, the democrats are struggling to find someone to beat DONALD trump, the carnival barker.
 
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LTP

Mar 2018
1,492
291
Grayson
close.... its the proliferation of psychoactive drugs with side effects of homicidal ideations and suicidal thoughts, combined with the mindfuck of violence in media and the zero tolerance policies that keep kids from working out disputes themselves..... reminiscent of The ludovico technique..... Stanley Kubrick couldn’t write this so well.
I did not list all the reasons under drugs, but there are actually about 16 to 18 identifying markers that determine whether or not a youth will commit an act of violence in their life time. If a youth meets half of those markers (any half of the markers) AND takes psychotropic drugs, they will commit an act of violence in their lives.

I've been studying the issue for literally decades and have written model legislation, but neither the left nor right will even consider it. Gun owners live in a delusional world thinking they don't have to be proactive; the left only cares about legislation that contains gun control. At the end of the day, nobody give's a rat's ass about children until they become political fodder for getting what you want out of the government. We could stop over 90 percent of mass shootings (which would DEEPLY impact other shootings) WITHOUT any tax increases, WITHOUT new taxes, WITHOUT new bureaucracies and WITHOUT GUN CONTROL.

What you listed are a couple of those identifying markers, but neither side will act on it. So, on gun control, both sides are going to the same destination.

The left's incessant whining about doing Universal Background Checks would not be worth a tinker's damn if not for the right's commitment to the National ID / REAL ID Act E-Verify scheme. That legislation allows the government to monitor everyone from the womb to the tomb and use the Universal Background Check as de facto firearm registration. Registration leads to confiscation and, consequently, BOTH sides are participating in the same objective. Pick an issue. It's one hand washing the other.
 

LTP

Mar 2018
1,492
291
Grayson
Well warren is trying to repair the damage hillary did to the blue wall. her biggest mistake was forsaking the white working class vote who voted for obama, then trump. so she's at least seeing the issue. Her problem among others is she's quite far left in comparison. The dems best chance is to scrap the table and start again. looking at donations, they are in trouble.

And to me that boggles the mind, the democrats are struggling to find someone to beat DONALD trump, the carnival barker.
Donald Trump is a Democrat and he is the best Democrat in the United States. Even the Republicans cannot say Republic. The closest the RINO Party can do is the occasional democratic republic if you call them out on it.
 
Jul 2019
4,989
2,544
Georgia
if we were to name the most quintessentially bothsideist journalist,

it would be Maggie F Haberman
 
Sep 2014
1,439
178
On the outside, trickling down on the Insiders
totally. I'm sure a seasoned Senator takes her cues from a freshman Rep.

yeah.
Pottawannabe

Squaw Lizzie takes it from the fact that her racial identification believes all the rest of us came here illegally. I need my VA benefits, so I hope she's not an Indian giver.