Cartoons : A view from the middle

Mar 2006
1,057
4
Islamabad
#1
Alright so here I am sitting on my laptop ready to let everybody know what I think of the world these days. Yes Yes, you are quite right in considering me slightly arrogant for believing that anybody really cares what I think. In fact I should be lucky to have anybody read this at all. But what the hell, maybe some data-archeologist in the future will find my opinion interesting.



Nevertheless here goes:



I’m half Danish and half Pakistani. Since Denmark is a teeny country of only 5 million inhabitants, and has a slightly xenophobic culture, there are not many of us Danistanis around. To be honest the world never really cared. Until recently.



12 cartoons were printed in a Danish newspaper. Muslims got ticked off. This is the situation.



I don’t care who is at fault. I don’t care who started it. I only want to take the situation as it is and get it sorted.



To the Danish people:.

If you can respect the rule of not wearing shoes in a mosque, then why can you not respect the rule of not drawing a picture of the prophet.

Islam is NOT a terrorist religion. I am very sorry that you feel that it is. But if you feel it, you feel it and you have the right to have this opinion. Still, speaking as a regular run-of-the-mill muslim (not the bearded whacko kind)I do believe you could have shown some degree of respect for a different faith.

If the issue was to highlight self censorship in the Danish media regarding Islam, could it not have been on any variety of other issues (women’s rights, the alleged 70 virgins in heaven, suicide bombers) rather than one which alienates all muslims, hardline as well as moderate? Had you commissioned cartoons highlighting the exploitation of disillusioned youths by hardline clerics, you would still have ticked off the bearded crazies while not affecting the religious sensibilities of the majority of muslims. Indeed I belive you would have felt a surprising amount of backing from regular muslims.

You see, we don’t like the mullahs any more than you do. They ensure that we are looked at with suspicion in the west. They ensure that we retain primitive traditions. They ensure women are kept locked up. They ensure that people are kept stupid. And they ensure that all of you think that all of us regular muslims are nuts.

At this point in time however, regular muslims are insulted too. So by printing this cartoon you have made moderates side with the bearded crazies. Please try and get this out of the way. Please accept that this cartoon was an unwarranted provocation of a religion rather than a critique of the bearded crazies. Please accept that these cartoons are as much of an insult to our religious belief as is the denial of the holocaust to jews. Feel what you feel and express your opinions freely. The drawing of a mullah with a bomb in the turban is actually a very apt analogy of the bearded crazies. But please for the sake of peace do not involve the most revered figure in our faith in this critique. If you consider the history of this man you will see that he himself would not have condoned such violence as the bearded crazies are advocating in his name. He forgave all transgressions against him. Just as we moderate muslims would like to. Indeed just as the muslims of Norway stood together and did upon receiving an apology.



To the Muslims:



I write now to all muslims who have felt affected by these drawings. I understand the outrage and indeed have felt it myself. But I started thinking about the reasons and to be honest I can’t really blame the danes for doing this. The bearded crazies are much more our problem than they are the West’s.

Every time something about our religion comes up, somehow the bearded crazies take over and start speaking for all of us. I don’t know about you, but nothing in my understanding of Islam speaks of glory for those who kill Americans. I do not believe that Islam will be spread through violent Jihad. I do not believe that women have to be kept under lock and key at home. I do not believe that non-believers should be given less rights than muslims in a muslim country. I do not believe that muslims need intermediaries to understand Islam and to pray to god. And I do Not belive that anybody who insults my religion should be killed.

I believe that all humans are equal. I believe violence is the resort of primitive people. I believe that women are equal to men. I believe that suicide bombers are misinformed individuals exploited by religious leaders who never risk a hair on their own head.I believe that anybody who insults islam is ignorant and must be taught through dialogue and discourse. I belive Islam is such a perfect religion that it is spread purely by setting an example. I believe Islam is such a perfect religion that nobody can read the quran and see any contradictions within it. I belive that Islam will prevail. But Islam will prevail IN SPITE of the bearded crazies. Never BECAUSE of them.



The bearded crazies are our problem MORE than they are the West’s. The west worries about a few fatalities. We have to worry about economic and political sanctions. We have to worry about somebody screaming “BLASPHEMY” in front of our house only to be ransacked by a crazed mob led by one of the bearded crazies. We have to worry about being evicted from the country we have emigrated to because we are thought to be with the bearded crazies. Lets face it, they are a major problem for our image.



An insult was perpetrated in Denmark. Yet muslims are burning their own cities led by the bearded crazies. Why is that?



We all know that a religious party is generally great in opposition but as soon as they have to deal with the nitty gritties of administration they completely suck. There is a reason for that. Bearded crazies are generally angry people and are fueled by anger towards any available culprit.



Seeing the broadcast of the protests in Lahore and Islamabad, I saw only young people venting their anger. It had diddly squat to do with the cartoons. Life is hard for the people in Pakistan. We have rampant corruption, complete mismanagement of public funds and the biggest crooks in the world comprising our political class. The protests started because of the cartoons. It ended in violence because we have a large section of the population disillusioned and disaffected by the life they lead.



We need to do two things here:



1) Stop letting the bearded crazies represent our beautiful religion. Internally as well as externally.

2) Ensure that our population is not so frustrated with their lives. If they aren’t ticked off in the first place about poverty, pollution, corruption, crime, discrimination and lack of representation in the government, no mullah would be able to incite any mob to such barbaric violence.



We have all the answers to every situation in our lives in the religion of Islam. Considering the infinite variety of situations that each muslim faces every day of his life, how can it be that mullahs somehow manage to present protest, violence and jihad as the answer to most of them. I don’ t know guys. Seems a bit primitive for a religion meant for all time.



What do you think?
 
May 2006
6,176
5
#2
Your religion has a cancer. That is no one's problem but the muslims. Stop writing your emotional requests to respect Islam to people who only want to live in freedom. You can't have it both ways. You cannot ask people to respect your religion as long as you will not take out those who are only responding to what it says in the Quran. YOUR problem and not the Danish, the French, the English, or the Americans.



It's like asking people to respect murderers just because they did murder them. You don't get it.
 
Mar 2006
1,057
4
Islamabad
#4
alias said:
Muhammed was a war monger and a pedophile and a liar.





Yeah well thankfully your opinion is completely irrelevant to me and the world at large.



Your value to the planet is less than the blonde hair on my left nut.



So be gone.



I wrote the article to generate re-concilliation.. not to listen to the idiotic rants of a bitter old bigot.
 
May 2006
6,176
5
#5
Your message begins by telling people to respect your lying pedophile warmongering prophet by not drawing cartoons of him. I've got news for you. People can make their own decisions about what to draw cartoons of. People have free minds. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to burn my flag? Are you going to grab an innocent person and slit their throat? That is what your brothers do when they don't get their way. Don't tell me to be gone. I am a free man and do what I please. Get used to it.



 
Mar 2006
1,057
4
Islamabad
#6
alias said:
Your message begins by telling people to respect your lying pedophile warmongering prophet by not drawing cartoons of him. I've got news for you. People can make their own decisions about what to draw cartoons of. People have free minds. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to burn my flag? Are you going to grab an innocent person and slit their throat? That is what your brothers do when they don't get their way. Don't tell me to be gone. I am a free man and do what I please. Get used to it.





trust me little man.. i couldn't care less about your existence...



Billions believe in Islam.. And billions don't.. this article was meant to bridge a gap that became evident after the printing of the cartoons. But you can stay on your side.. in fact please do
 
May 2006
6,176
5
#7
hkbajwa said:
trust me little man.. i couldn't care less about your existence...



Billions believe in Islam.. And billions don't.. this article was meant to bridge a gap that became evident after the printing of the cartoons. But you can stay on your side.. in fact please do


I'll stay on the side of freedom. I'll stay on the side of free thought. I'll stay on the side of progress and human rights. I'll stay on the side with everyone who opposes tyranny and slavery. I'll stay on the side of those who are willing to fight people like you who are nothing but pawns and parrots for evil men who want to enslave people and control their will to murder for your war lords in the name of god. People like you are the enemy of my nation. You know it and I know it. You won't admit it.
 
Jul 2009
3,537
116
#8
hkbajwa said:
What do you think?


I think the world has gone to crap!!!!



Cartoons are nothing but dumbed down garbage these days and its really sad that the kids of today WOULD RATHER WATCH NICK TOONS THEN BOOMERANG!!! (They think that crap is better)



Absolutely sad...... They have NO IDEA WHAT GOOD IS....... The world has become such dumbed down garbage its sad!!
 
Dec 2012
422
156
Colorado
#9
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hkbajwa" data-cid="54219" data-time="1162931981">Alright so here I am sitting on my laptop ready to let everybody know what I think of the world these days. Yes Yes, you are quite right in considering me slightly arrogant for believing that anybody really cares what I think. In fact I should be lucky to have anybody read this at all. But what the hell, maybe some data-archeologist in the future will find my opinion interesting.


Nevertheless here goes:


I’m half Danish and half Pakistani. Since Denmark is a teeny country of only 5 million inhabitants, and has a slightly xenophobic culture, there are not many of us Danistanis around. To be honest the world never really cared. Until recently.


12 cartoons were printed in a Danish newspaper. Muslims got ticked off. This is the situation.


I don’t care who is at fault. I don’t care who started it. I only want to take the situation as it is and get it sorted.


To the Danish people:.

If you can respect the rule of not wearing shoes in a mosque, then why can you not respect the rule of not drawing a picture of the prophet.

Islam is NOT a terrorist religion. I am very sorry that you feel that it is. But if you feel it, you feel it and you have the right to have this opinion. Still, speaking as a regular run-of-the-mill muslim (not the bearded whacko kind)I do believe you could have shown some degree of respect for a different faith.

If the issue was to highlight self censorship in the Danish media regarding Islam, could it not have been on any variety of other issues (women’s rights, the alleged 70 virgins in heaven, suicide bombers) rather than one which alienates all muslims, hardline as well as moderate? Had you commissioned cartoons highlighting the exploitation of disillusioned youths by hardline clerics, you would still have ticked off the bearded crazies while not affecting the religious sensibilities of the majority of muslims. Indeed I belive you would have felt a surprising amount of backing from regular muslims.

You see, we don’t like the mullahs any more than you do. They ensure that we are looked at with suspicion in the west. They ensure that we retain primitive traditions. They ensure women are kept locked up. They ensure that people are kept stupid. And they ensure that all of you think that all of us regular muslims are nuts.

At this point in time however, regular muslims are insulted too. So by printing this cartoon you have made moderates side with the bearded crazies. Please try and get this out of the way. Please accept that this cartoon was an unwarranted provocation of a religion rather than a critique of the bearded crazies. Please accept that these cartoons are as much of an insult to our religious belief as is the denial of the holocaust to jews. Feel what you feel and express your opinions freely. The drawing of a mullah with a bomb in the turban is actually a very apt analogy of the bearded crazies. But please for the sake of peace do not involve the most revered figure in our faith in this critique. If you consider the history of this man you will see that he himself would not have condoned such violence as the bearded crazies are advocating in his name. He forgave all transgressions against him. Just as we moderate muslims would like to. Indeed just as the muslims of Norway stood together and did upon receiving an apology.


To the Muslims:


I write now to all muslims who have felt affected by these drawings. I understand the outrage and indeed have felt it myself. But I started thinking about the reasons and to be honest I can’t really blame the danes for doing this. The bearded crazies are much more our problem than they are the West’s.

Every time something about our religion comes up, somehow the bearded crazies take over and start speaking for all of us. I don’t know about you, but nothing in my understanding of Islam speaks of glory for those who kill Americans. I do not believe that Islam will be spread through violent Jihad. I do not believe that women have to be kept under lock and key at home. I do not believe that non-believers should be given less rights than muslims in a muslim country. I do not believe that muslims need intermediaries to understand Islam and to pray to god. And I do Not belive that anybody who insults my religion should be killed.

I believe that all humans are equal. I believe violence is the resort of primitive people. I believe that women are equal to men. I believe that suicide bombers are misinformed individuals exploited by religious leaders who never risk a hair on their own head.I believe that anybody who insults islam is ignorant and must be taught through dialogue and discourse. I belive Islam is such a perfect religion that it is spread purely by setting an example. I believe Islam is such a perfect religion that nobody can read the quran and see any contradictions within it. I belive that Islam will prevail. But Islam will prevail IN SPITE of the bearded crazies. Never BECAUSE of them.


The bearded crazies are our problem MORE than they are the West’s. The west worries about a few fatalities. We have to worry about economic and political sanctions. We have to worry about somebody screaming “BLASPHEMY” in front of our house only to be ransacked by a crazed mob led by one of the bearded crazies. We have to worry about being evicted from the country we have emigrated to because we are thought to be with the bearded crazies. Lets face it, they are a major problem for our image.


An insult was perpetrated in Denmark. Yet muslims are burning their own cities led by the bearded crazies. Why is that?


We all know that a religious party is generally great in opposition but as soon as they have to deal with the nitty gritties of administration they completely suck. There is a reason for that. Bearded crazies are generally angry people and are fueled by anger towards any available culprit.


Seeing the broadcast of the protests in Lahore and Islamabad, I saw only young people venting their anger. It had diddly squat to do with the cartoons. Life is hard for the people in Pakistan. We have rampant corruption, complete mismanagement of public funds and the biggest crooks in the world comprising our political class. The protests started because of the cartoons. It ended in violence because we have a large section of the population disillusioned and disaffected by the life they lead.


We need to do two things here:


1) Stop letting the bearded crazies represent our beautiful religion. Internally as well as externally.

2) Ensure that our population is not so frustrated with their lives. If they aren’t ticked off in the first place about poverty, pollution, corruption, crime, discrimination and lack of representation in the government, no mullah would be able to incite any mob to such barbaric violence.


We have all the answers to every situation in our lives in the religion of Islam. Considering the infinite variety of situations that each muslim faces every day of his life, how can it be that mullahs somehow manage to present protest, violence and jihad as the answer to most of them. I don’ t know guys. Seems a bit primitive for a religion meant for all time.


What do you think?</blockquote>


Your first sentence to the Danes "If you can respect the rule of not wearing shoes in a mosque, then why can you not respect the rule of not drawing a picture of the prophet." is not a logical simile.  A cultural practice inside the culture (in this case a mosque) is not akin to a basic right of free speech.  Your argument starts with a plea to limit one's free speech because it might cause "moderates" to rally around the crazies.  Your position is not what I would consider a moderate.  Nor would I (or most people) consider those who use a cartoon (any cartoon) to rally around around a crazy-beard. You seem like a nice guy.  But don't expect people to rally around you with that argument.
 
Nov 2012
22,986
5,052
Gamma Solaris
#10
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Indy772012" data-cid="454059" data-time="1357962493"><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hkbajwa" data-cid="54219" data-time="1162931981">Alright so here I am sitting on my laptop ready to let everybody know what I think of the world these days. Yes Yes, you are quite right in considering me slightly arrogant for believing that anybody really cares what I think. In fact I should be lucky to have anybody read this at all. But what the hell, maybe some data-archeologist in the future will find my opinion interesting.


Nevertheless here goes:


I’m half Danish and half Pakistani. Since Denmark is a teeny country of only 5 million inhabitants, and has a slightly xenophobic culture, there are not many of us Danistanis around. To be honest the world never really cared. Until recently.


12 cartoons were printed in a Danish newspaper. Muslims got ticked off. This is the situation.


I don’t care who is at fault. I don’t care who started it. I only want to take the situation as it is and get it sorted.


To the Danish people:.

If you can respect the rule of not wearing shoes in a mosque, then why can you not respect the rule of not drawing a picture of the prophet.

Islam is NOT a terrorist religion. I am very sorry that you feel that it is. But if you feel it, you feel it and you have the right to have this opinion. Still, speaking as a regular run-of-the-mill muslim (not the bearded whacko kind)I do believe you could have shown some degree of respect for a different faith.

If the issue was to highlight self censorship in the Danish media regarding Islam, could it not have been on any variety of other issues (women’s rights, the alleged 70 virgins in heaven, suicide bombers) rather than one which alienates all muslims, hardline as well as moderate? Had you commissioned cartoons highlighting the exploitation of disillusioned youths by hardline clerics, you would still have ticked off the bearded crazies while not affecting the religious sensibilities of the majority of muslims. Indeed I belive you would have felt a surprising amount of backing from regular muslims.

You see, we don’t like the mullahs any more than you do. They ensure that we are looked at with suspicion in the west. They ensure that we retain primitive traditions. They ensure women are kept locked up. They ensure that people are kept stupid. And they ensure that all of you think that all of us regular muslims are nuts.

At this point in time however, regular muslims are insulted too. So by printing this cartoon you have made moderates side with the bearded crazies. Please try and get this out of the way. Please accept that this cartoon was an unwarranted provocation of a religion rather than a critique of the bearded crazies. Please accept that these cartoons are as much of an insult to our religious belief as is the denial of the holocaust to jews. Feel what you feel and express your opinions freely. The drawing of a mullah with a bomb in the turban is actually a very apt analogy of the bearded crazies. But please for the sake of peace do not involve the most revered figure in our faith in this critique. If you consider the history of this man you will see that he himself would not have condoned such violence as the bearded crazies are advocating in his name. He forgave all transgressions against him. Just as we moderate muslims would like to. Indeed just as the muslims of Norway stood together and did upon receiving an apology.


To the Muslims:


I write now to all muslims who have felt affected by these drawings. I understand the outrage and indeed have felt it myself. But I started thinking about the reasons and to be honest I can’t really blame the danes for doing this. The bearded crazies are much more our problem than they are the West’s.

Every time something about our religion comes up, somehow the bearded crazies take over and start speaking for all of us. I don’t know about you, but nothing in my understanding of Islam speaks of glory for those who kill Americans. I do not believe that Islam will be spread through violent Jihad. I do not believe that women have to be kept under lock and key at home. I do not believe that non-believers should be given less rights than muslims in a muslim country. I do not believe that muslims need intermediaries to understand Islam and to pray to god. And I do Not belive that anybody who insults my religion should be killed.

I believe that all humans are equal. I believe violence is the resort of primitive people. I believe that women are equal to men. I believe that suicide bombers are misinformed individuals exploited by religious leaders who never risk a hair on their own head.I believe that anybody who insults islam is ignorant and must be taught through dialogue and discourse. I belive Islam is such a perfect religion that it is spread purely by setting an example. I believe Islam is such a perfect religion that nobody can read the quran and see any contradictions within it. I belive that Islam will prevail. But Islam will prevail IN SPITE of the bearded crazies. Never BECAUSE of them.


The bearded crazies are our problem MORE than they are the West’s. The west worries about a few fatalities. We have to worry about economic and political sanctions. We have to worry about somebody screaming “BLASPHEMY” in front of our house only to be ransacked by a crazed mob led by one of the bearded crazies. We have to worry about being evicted from the country we have emigrated to because we are thought to be with the bearded crazies. Lets face it, they are a major problem for our image.


An insult was perpetrated in Denmark. Yet muslims are burning their own cities led by the bearded crazies. Why is that?


We all know that a religious party is generally great in opposition but as soon as they have to deal with the nitty gritties of administration they completely suck. There is a reason for that. Bearded crazies are generally angry people and are fueled by anger towards any available culprit.


Seeing the broadcast of the protests in Lahore and Islamabad, I saw only young people venting their anger. It had diddly squat to do with the cartoons. Life is hard for the people in Pakistan. We have rampant corruption, complete mismanagement of public funds and the biggest crooks in the world comprising our political class. The protests started because of the cartoons. It ended in violence because we have a large section of the population disillusioned and disaffected by the life they lead.


We need to do two things here:


1) Stop letting the bearded crazies represent our beautiful religion. Internally as well as externally.

2) Ensure that our population is not so frustrated with their lives. If they aren’t ticked off in the first place about poverty, pollution, corruption, crime, discrimination and lack of representation in the government, no mullah would be able to incite any mob to such barbaric violence.


We have all the answers to every situation in our lives in the religion of Islam. Considering the infinite variety of situations that each muslim faces every day of his life, how can it be that mullahs somehow manage to present protest, violence and jihad as the answer to most of them. I don’ t know guys. Seems a bit primitive for a religion meant for all time.


What do you think?</blockquote>


Your first sentence to the Danes "If you can respect the rule of not wearing shoes in a mosque, then why can you not respect the rule of not drawing a picture of the prophet." is not a logical simile.  A cultural practice inside the culture (in this case a mosque) is not akin to a basic right of free speech.  Your argument starts with a plea to limit one's free speech because it might cause "moderates" to rally around the crazies.  Your position is not what I would consider a moderate.  Nor would I (or most people) consider those who use a cartoon (any cartoon) to rally around around a crazy-beard. You seem like a nice guy.  But don't expect people to rally around you with that argument.</blockquote>


Also for the date-retrieving archeologists: Muslims want the rest of the world either Muslim...or dead. The most heinous crimes are committed by Muslims, the world over. Israel & Palestine? Israelis TRY to be pointed in their RETALIATION while Palestinians just lob missiles into neighborhoods. In Pakistan..."honor killings" are pro-forma. Having a young girl shot in the head for wanting an education stands tall. Sending sappers into India to burn out a hotel complex and kill as many as possible also stands tall. It USED to be yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theatre was something to fear...now it's "allah akhbahr". If you think your religion is "holy"...what can I say? Maybe if Muslims gathered in the streets to burn Iranian or Pakistani flags over atrocities instead of "Die, die, Amrika" you'd change some minds. All in all...what crap.
 

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