Christian Grace

Nov 2012
16,513
5,538
Michigan
#1
There’s a mistake I keep seeing, from atheists and from church going folk as well. There is a common misconception that following Christ means avoiding evil for fear of punishment and doing good for promise of reward. The truth is quite the opposite. Christ came to free us from exactly that sort of religion.

By his suffering and death Jesus freed us from punishment. We now avoid evil not out of fear, but out of love. And when we do good, it is not for reward but rather out of gratitude for what God has done for us.

I think of it like raising a child. When a child is small there are times when good parent must punish, but not because the parent wants to.
 
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Feb 2007
3,171
1,532
New York
#2
Except that punishing a child is temporary. Not seeing the world as Christians do will get a person sent to a place of great pain for all of eternity. Bascally the equivalent would be selling your kid into lifetime slavery to a sadist for breaking curfew.
 
May 2018
2,208
1,492
USA
#3
Wow, that makes perfect sense. A God that makes all the rules and can break them at will...chooses to offer a blood sacrifice of (A) himself born into human form or (B) his son born in human form (depending on who you ask), to forgive us all for the sin of Adam and Eve eating from the tree of knowledge and therefore acquiring knowledge. Because he can't just "forgive" them out of decency or anything....after all he doesn't make the rules or anything. Oh wait...he does. But it gets better: his "sacrifice" is ONLY FOR THOSE WHO SWEAR FEALTY TO HIM, everybody else burns forever and ever.

But he LOVES you.

Amazes me people fail to see the lack of logic there.
 
Nov 2012
16,513
5,538
Michigan
#4
The goal of a parent’s guidance through punishments and rewards is not just to enforce a strict legal code, but rather in the hope the child will take the message to heart and as they grow avoid evil out of love and respect. And also to do good the same.
 
Nov 2012
16,513
5,538
Michigan
#5
Wow, that makes perfect sense. A God that makes all the rules and can break them at will...chooses to offer a blood sacrifice of (A) himself born into human form or (B) his son born in human form (depending on who you ask), to forgive us all for the sin of Adam and Eve eating from the tree of knowledge and therefore acquiring knowledge. Because he can't just "forgive" them out of decency or anything....after all he doesn't make the rules or anything. Oh wait...he does. But it gets better: his "sacrifice" is ONLY FOR THOSE WHO SWEAR FEALTY TO HIM, everybody else burns forever and ever.

But he LOVES you.

Amazes me people fail to see the lack of logic there.
If you ever forgive someone who has hurt you persinally and deeply, you discover that forgiveness hurts to do.
 
Nov 2012
16,513
5,538
Michigan
#6
Except that punishing a child is temporary. Not seeing the world as Christians do will get a person sent to a place of great pain for all of eternity. Bascally the equivalent would be selling your kid into lifetime slavery to a sadist for breaking curfew.
If you commit an act of evil and never learn to repent from it, I assure you, if you have a parent who loves you, they will suffer for your act, always.
 
Jul 2008
17,261
11,173
Virginia Beach, VA
#7
There’s a mistake I keep seeing, from atheists and from church going folk as well. There is a common misconception that following Christ means avoiding evil for fear of punishment and doing good for promise of reward. The truth is quite the opposite. Christ came to free us from exactly that sort of religion.

By his suffering and death Jesus freed us from punishment. We now avoid evil not out of fear, but out of love. And when we do good, it is not for reward but rather out of gratitude for what God has done for us.

I think of it like raising a child. When a child is small there are times when good parent must punish, but not because the parent wants to.
Your analogy fails completely.

As KoS points out, the punishment a parent subjects a child to is temporary. There is NO transgression that warrants an enternity of suffering.

Secondly, the punishment of a parent comes directly after the transgression in a hope to change behavior. The punishment from your god comes after a lifetime and by the time punishment is handed out it is too late. You can’t change anything to correct the behavior that earned the punishment.
 
Likes: imaginethat
Nov 2012
16,513
5,538
Michigan
#8
Your analogy fails completely.

As KoS points out, the punishment a parent subjects a child to is temporary. There is NO transgression that warrants an enternity of suffering.

Secondly, the punishment of a parent comes directly after the transgression in a hope to change behavior. The punishment from your god comes after a lifetime and by the time punishment is handed out it is too late. You can’t change anything to correct the behavior that earned the punishment.
Again, if your child commits great evil, you will suffer, forever.

If you eyes were opened to a great evil you committed, you would suffer, forever, until you accept Gods forgiveness.
 
Feb 2007
3,171
1,532
New York
#9
Again, if your child commits great evil, you will suffer, forever.

If you eyes were opened to a great evil you committed, you would suffer, forever, until you accept Gods forgiveness.
Your response doesn't even address the points that were made. Have you actually RAISED a child? I'm not asking to be snarky; rather I want to know if you have a frame of reference here.
 
Jul 2018
346
109
Earth
#10
The goal of a parent’s guidance through punishments and rewards is not just to enforce a strict legal code, but rather in the hope the child will take the message to heart and as they grow avoid evil out of love and respect. And also to do good the same.
The Bible defines evil as such things as doing any kind of work on the sabbath (everyone will go to hell for that one), eating certain foods, wearing certain clothes, not showing up for mandatory meetings, praying in public, not giving to those who ask, resisting the evil man, not gouging out your eyes or cutting off body parts to avoid sinning, etc. But it's OK to kill and rape under certain circumstances and to sell your children into slavery.
 

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