Contradictory atheist arguments

Oct 2019
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USA
No one is indoctrinated into science.
Yes you are, in K-12 education you (or at least others) are taught it, you/they didn't independently discover or invent the theories yourself, like Newton or Einstein did.

And if you had been born in the Middle Ages, you'd have been "taught" geocentrism, or whatever the science of the day and age was. (And most likely denouncing Newton as a "heretic" since he disagreed with what you had been "taught").

You see the world around you and see how mathematical descriptions and scientific principles explain the whys and wherefores of all that.
Seeing the world around me, and inventing the theories about it, which are constructed from mathematics - isn't the same thing.

People saw apples falling from trees since the dawn of time, it was Newton who actually used this information to invent his theory of Gravity, the average person may have seen apples falling from trees, but they were not a mathematical genuis who created a grand theory out of it.

Not indoctrination, the need to believe what you can't see, but an explanation of what you can see around you.
Mathematics and theories "can't be seen", they're inventions or contents of the mind.

So believing in mathematical theories, or mental concepts is "believing in something you can't see".

As to your source, a totally specious argument is being presented. Atheism is a default. It is no belief. That's what babies have until an influencer, usually a parent indoctrinates them.
A lack of belief in science is a default, that's what babies have until an influencer, usually, a parent indoctrinates them.

The average person has an IQ of 100 - he isn't a Newton, or an Einstein, who invented and discovered the scientific theories himself - he was indoctrinated into them by parents, schoolteachers, and so forth, and merely repeating them because an authority figure "told him" it was true. Just like he'd be repeating geocentrism if he had been born in the Middle Ages, and it was what was taught in that day and age.

You like so many others want to believe that atheists say there is no god. That is not true. Atheists say there is insufficient reason to believe there is a god.
That's an argument from authority fallacy, since their argument is based on God not "being within the scope of science".

By the same logic then, the existence of Charles Darwin "isn't within the scope of sciencel his existence is not testable, repeatable, or demonstrable by the scientific method" - so, therefore, Charles Darwin doesn't exist.

Or human thoughts "cannot be seen", human thoughts, therefore "do not exist".

Obviously, if this argument was applied literally, it would lead to absurd conclusions, which is why the scientific method is very limited in scope, and in practice, no one uses it as an approximation for all phenomena in existence to begin with. (HIstory is totally outside the scope of the scientific method, for example - but that doesn't mean "history doesn't exist).
 

RNG

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Apr 2013
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Many theories are not constructed from math. Often a theory comes first and math is used to describe it or to confirm it.
 
Jul 2014
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1. "All children are atheists until they are indoctrinated into religion".

2. "Religion is a holdover from childhood - like believing in Santa Claus, until they grow out of it".

So which one is true? They can't both be right. Are they "born atheists" until they become religious, or "born theist" until they become atheist?
Both are true, no one ever believed in god or santa claus without being told there was a god and there was a Santa Claus.
And then when you get older, you realize your were told about God and Santa Claus to get you to behave.
It just takes some people longer to figure out God than to figure out Santa....
 
Oct 2019
663
45
USA
Both are true, no one ever believed in god or santa claus without being told there was a god and there was a Santa Claus.
No one ever believed in Charles Darwin without being told there was a Charles Darwin.

And then when you get older, you realize your were told about God and Santa Claus to get you to behave.
And then when you get older, you realize you were told about the Criminal Justice System to get you to behave. And were told about how awesome science to get you to buy washing machines and Ipads, despite most advertising and scientific propaganda being willfully or intentionally misleading.

It just takes some people longer to figure out God than to figure out Santa....
It just takes some people longer to figure out Charles Darwin than to figure out God...

Yawn...
 
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RNG

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Apr 2013
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No one ever believed in Charles Darwin without being told there was a Charles Darwin.


And then when you get older, you realize you were told about the Criminal Justice System to get you to behave. And were told about how awesome science to get you to buy washing machines and Ipads, despite most advertising and scientific propaganda being willfully or intentionally misleading.


It just takes some people longer to figure out Charles Darwin than to figure out God...

Yawn...
There is a neat couple of sentences from Neil DeGrasse I think who says something along the line that if all science was removed/forgotten whatever, the same laws and conclusions would be arrived at by observation, study and calculation. But if all religions were removed, probably some god or gods would be invented again but they'd be totally different.

And I very strongly agree that is what would happen.
 
Oct 2019
663
45
USA
There is a neat couple of sentences from Neil DeGrasse I think who says something along the line that if all science was removed/forgotten whatever, the same laws and conclusions would be arrived at by observation, study and calculation. But if all religions were removed, probably some god or gods would be invented again but they'd be totally different.

And I very strongly agree that is what would happen.
I disagree on that one. The idea that religion isn't modeled on universal laws, ideas, concepts, and so forth is what I'd digress on.
 

imaginethat

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Oct 2010
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No one is indoctrinated into science. You see the world around you and see how mathematical descriptions and scientific principles explain the whys and wherefores of all that. Not indoctrination, the need to believe what you can't see, but an explanation of what you can see around you.

That is a totally false parallel you are trying to create.

As to your source, a totally specious argument is being presented. Atheism is a defaut. It is no belief. That's what babies have until an influencer, usually a parent indoctrinates them.

You like so many others want to believe that atheists say there is no god. That is not true. Atheists say there is insufficient reason to believe there is a god.
I was not born into a religious family, in fact I don't ever remember my parents or any of my aunts or uncles attending church. There was no Bible in our house until I asked for one for Christmas when I was ten.

However, as a young child I'd lay on my back in the yard and literally see God's face in the clouds. When five or six, I first "heard" a gentle, loving voice that has always given me good advice, and also information.

This is something that I can't deny. You or anyone have the right to call me crazy, hearing voices, and who knows? You could be right.

However, I can assure you that this voice has never failed to give me what I needed to hear, always sought to steer me onto the loving path, helped me to heal diseases, act from love rather than fear. I consider it the most profound blessing of my life, and have no idea where I would be today without it.
 

RNG

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Apr 2013
40,077
27,890
La La Land North
I was not born into a religious family, in fact I don't ever remember my parents or any of my aunts or uncles attending church. There was no Bible in our house until I asked for one for Christmas when I was ten.

However, as a young child I'd lay on my back in the yard and literally see God's face in the clouds. When five or six, I first "heard" a gentle, loving voice that has always given me good advice, and also information.

This is something that I can't deny. You or anyone have the right to call me crazy, hearing voices, and who knows? You could be right.

However, I can assure you that this voice has never failed to give me what I needed to hear, always sought to steer me onto the loving path, helped me to heal diseases, act from love rather than fear. I consider it the most profound blessing of my life, and have no idea where I would be today without it.
Great, but that sort of proves my point. You did not invent the world being created in 6 days, Adam and Eve, the great flood. Or twelve disciples and all that. You developed a totally different spirituality.

But if an apple had hit you on the head, you would have either gotten a concussion, or formulated the same law of gravity as we have now.