Democratic Socialism Is the Scenic Route to Serfdom

Nov 2018
5,547
3,017
Rocky Mountains
First, yes, I know that; read my post again.

Second, the same thing that led to slave labor in the socialist USSR: a failure of law.
Your arguments are circular. You argue that capitalism is central to democracy yet when capitalism produces exploitation (which is naturally does) you blame the exploitation on the failure of the political system you associate with "socialism". 19th century exploitation was purely a consequence of capitalism and that exploitation led to search for other economic models, including socialism and government oversight of industry.
 
Dec 2018
2,605
1,595
Unionville Indiana
Looks like we're in agreement regarding opposition to Warren's candidacy.
You still don't understand the difference between democratic socialist policies (i.e., Norway) and dictatorial communism (USSR). Oh well, most right wingers stubbornly never do.
 
Dec 2018
4,894
1,340
New England
Your arguments are circular. You argue that capitalism is central to democracy yet when capitalism produces exploitation (which is naturally does) you blame the exploitation on the failure of the political system you associate with "socialism". 19th century exploitation was purely a consequence of capitalism and that exploitation led to search for other economic models, including socialism and government oversight of industry.
No, your straw-man is circular. A nation can easily screw-up with a capitalist system absent respect for rights and the rule of law.

Back to the point, there are some here who think because miserable work conditions at one time existed under capitalism that capitalism is the cause of miserable working conditions. This is folly, IMO, and displays a willful ignorance of recorded human history. Join them if you like, but I won't be.
 
Dec 2018
4,894
1,340
New England
You still don't understand the difference between democratic socialist policies (i.e., Norway) and dictatorial communism (USSR). Oh well, most right wingers stubbornly never do.
I understand the difference. Where we differ is that I see them as matters of degree, thus they can sometimes be lumped together depending on the context of the discussion.
 
Dec 2018
4,894
1,340
New England
And Pinochet's coup overthrowing a duly elected democratic socialist was a matter of degree too?
You are positively Pinochet possessed. Why do you think this is relevant, ever? No one here is arguing that capitalism is a substitute for democracy, the rule of law, or basic human rights. So please, you're just wasting your time with this.
 
Dec 2018
2,605
1,595
Unionville Indiana
You are positively Pinochet possessed. Why do you think this is relevant, ever? No one here is arguing that capitalism is a substitute for democracy, the rule of law, or basic human rights. So please, you're just wasting your time with this.
I won't as long as you're possessed with your selective and misleading all socialism-is-bad narrative.

You endlessly claim that socialism gives rise to dictatorship and human suffering, but when the abuses of capitalism and its military proponents are raised, you claim it's all somehow irrelevant. Unlike Pinochet's Chile, my tax dollars have never supported the USSR or Cuba.

Under the influence of the free market-oriented "Chicago Boys", Pinochet's military government implemented economic liberalization, including currency stabilization, removed tariff protections for local industry, banned trade unions and privatized social security and hundreds of state-owned enterprises. These policies produced high economic growth, but critics state that economic inequality dramatically increased and attribute the devastating effects of the 1982 monetary crisis on the Chilean economy to these policies.[18][19] For most of the 1990s, Chile was the best-performing economy in Latin America, though the legacy of Pinochet's reforms continues to be in dispute.[20] His fortune grew considerably during his years in power through dozens of bank accounts secretly held abroad and a fortune in real estate. He was later prosecuted for embezzlement, tax fraud and for possible commissions levied on arms deals.[21]

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Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression, and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the Military dictatorship of Chile under General Augusto Pinochet from 1973 to 1990.

According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed. In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]

The systematic human rights violations that were committed by the military government of Chile, under General Augusto Pinochet, included gruesome acts of physical and sexual abuse, as well as psychological damage. From 1973 to 1990, Chilean armed forces, the police and all those aligned with the military junta were involved in institutionalizing fear and terror in Chile.
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Dec 2018
2,605
1,595
Unionville Indiana
Because it does.

When I used the term "socialism" I generally mean its non-market variant, i.e. when its pushed as an alternative to capitalism.
It might help if you were more specific. Insinuating that some of our staunchest allies in Scandinavia and Europe are on the road to dictatorship, serfdom and genocide because of their mixed economies is a bit hyperbolic and alarmist to be most generous.
 
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