Democratic Socialism Is the Scenic Route to Serfdom

Nov 2018
5,400
2,857
Rocky Mountains
Sorry, build your own straw-men.

No one here is advocating for capitalism sans democracy, the rule of law, and protection for human rights. You can pimp this nonsense all you like, but it's all in your head.
You support "capitalism under democracy" but reject "capitalism under autocracy" because under democracy, capitalism is regulated? How does that happen magically? Why did "democracy" in 19th century America somehow result in child labor, monopolies, unsafe working conditions, price fixing and collusion, and general labor and consumer exploitation? Are you arguing that your America was not a "democracy" in the 19th Century???
 
Nov 2018
5,400
2,857
Rocky Mountains
You are hopeless, Biff. Don't think I'll be replying to many of your posts going forward. You're just not a reality-based kind of guy.
I think your problem is reception, not transmission. You seem fixated with free market capitalism and opposed to socialism, yet by your own admission, capitalism is problematic and needs government to regulate it. I think you are very confused and frantic to make sense of fallacious arguments.
 
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Dec 2018
2,397
1,403
Unionville Indiana
No one here is advocating for capitalism sans democracy, the rule of law, and protection for human rights. You can pimp this nonsense all you like, but it's all in your head.
Except Hayek, Friedman and the Chicago Boys:

...F. A. Hayek had less direct engagement with the Pinochet regime than Friedman, but his position arguably leaves a lot more to be desired. Hayek also made two visits to Chile during Pinochet’s reign—in 1977 and 1981—ostensibly to lecture at private universities. On the first visit Hayek met with Pinochet, when, according to Hayek, they discussed the problems of unlimited democracy. After each visit, Hayek engaged in propagandising on behalf of the regime—writing letters and giving interviews to newspapers in a number of countries in which he defended Pinochet’s economic and political record. Perhaps the most “unfortunate” comment Hayek made on this subject was in a letter to The Times, published on August 3, 1978, in which he wrote of his time in Chile: “I have not been able to find a single person even in much maligned Chile who did not agree that personal freedom was greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende.” Given that when Hayek wrote this statement more than 2,000 people had been murdered by the regime, or had disappeared believed to be murdered, and many more had been summarily detained and tortured, it is hard to credit his comment. ...

 
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Dec 2018
4,573
1,265
New England
Except Hayek, Friedman and the Chicago Boys:

...F. A. Hayek had less direct engagement with the Pinochet regime than Friedman, but his position arguably leaves a lot more to be desired. Hayek also made two visits to Chile during Pinochet’s reign—in 1977 and 1981—ostensibly to lecture at private universities. On the first visit Hayek met with Pinochet, when, according to Hayek, they discussed the problems of unlimited democracy. After each visit, Hayek engaged in propagandising on behalf of the regime—writing letters and giving interviews to newspapers in a number of countries in which he defended Pinochet’s economic and political record. Perhaps the most “unfortunate” comment Hayek made on this subject was in a letter to The Times, published on August 3, 1978, in which he wrote of his time in Chile: “I have not been able to find a single person even in much maligned Chile who did not agree that personal freedom was greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende.” Given that when Hayek wrote this statement more than 2,000 people had been murdered by the regime, or had disappeared believed to be murdered, and many more had been summarily detained and tortured, it is hard to credit his comment. ...

At most this shows Hayek was duped, not that he was advocating for authoritarianism.

Regardless, I am not here advocating for anything less than democracy, protection of human rights, and the rule of law. So the Pinochet links can be put to rest. They are meaningless here.
 
Dec 2018
2,397
1,403
Unionville Indiana
At most this shows Hayek was duped, not that he was advocating for authoritarianism.

Regardless, I am not here advocating for anything less than democracy, protection of human rights, and the rule of law. So the Pinochet links can be put to rest. They are meaningless here.
You didn't know about Hayek and the regime? Apologies for being the bearer of bad news. (Hayek, like everyone else who could read the papers, knew about the atrocities.)
 
Feb 2014
3,151
1,393
Oregon
You're not even attempting to address the points I raise. Why should I respond to yours?

Because you want us to know what you think. My questions are based on what you have said and the intent is to draw out your thoughts.

I am sorry if I missed a point. Can you copy and paste a point you want me to acknowledge and I will do my best to focus a response to it.

I have reviewed what you said, and realize when I feel offended I withdraw and don't carefully read what you have said. Saying what I say is nonsense, resulted in me feeling such pain and wanting to avoid that. Perhaps I have been offending you causing you to not pay attention to what I am saying? We all need to be more careful and more respectful because obviously communication is hurt when we feel hurt.

You said
By developing the work skills that employers value.
There is some truth to that, but that assumes we know what skills an employer wants and that it is possible to get the necessary training. Both assumptions would be wrong. It also does not take into consideration how many people fall out of the system during an economic collapse.

I sooo remember the crash when OPEC embargoed oil and having to hide my education with honors to get a job as a janitor, and years later someone looking at my resume and saying I am a janitor, not caring about my education and years of related volunteer work. Or the employer who noticed my volunteer work asking if I would volunteer when I desperately needed a paycheck. I was forced to remain a janitor or caregiver because what mattered most to employers was my paid experience. I also remember a training program during the 1970 recession that increased jobs only because the government paid part of the wages, and they were low skill jobs that did not mean supporting a family or an opportunity for advancement. These thoughts are addressing what you have said, are they not? Come on, I have years of volunteer work and college education. Talk to me about my worth and what I didn't do right.

I want to say, if we used the democratic model for industry instead of the autocratic model, that would correct the problems I have mentioned, most jobs would become an opportunity for advancement.
 
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Feb 2014
3,151
1,393
Oregon
At most this shows Hayek was duped, not that he was advocating for authoritarianism.

Regardless, I am not here advocating for anything less than democracy, protection of human rights, and the rule of law. So the Pinochet links can be put to rest. They are meaningless here.
Wait a minute. You want us to find meaning in what you say, while you are telling us our thoughts nonsense or the points we are trying to make are meaningless. You want to say this is not what you are doing? You shut us down and then complain that we are not addressing your points. Do you see a problem with this?
 
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Feb 2014
3,151
1,393
Oregon
At most this shows Hayek was duped, not that he was advocating for authoritarianism.

Regardless, I am not here advocating for anything less than democracy, protection of human rights, and the rule of law. So the Pinochet links can be put to rest. They are meaningless here.
Why was he duped? Did he have a point of view that blinded him to the evils and assumed the good? That seems to be the grounds of your post. Ignoring the wrongs of which we speak, and seeing a picture of good that we do not see.