Discussing WWI & WWII

Apr 2015
1,685
1,949
Stockport. UK
#61
I'll take a look @ the link. Information is good.

I'm not sure that Kaiser Bill & the German political leadership pre-WWI understood that once they mobilized the troops (& all the train movements of troops & supplies that went with that) that they were committed to combat. The German mobilization plans were predicated on their internal lines of comms, so that they could move more troops & supplies further & faster (by rail) than the opposing forces could. Which meant that the German advantage was transitory - in order for that advantage to tell, it had to be exercised immediately. As tensions pre-WWI ratcheted up, the German military & political leadership hesitated to mobilize - but the UK & allies, with longer lead times from the order to mobilization, pressed ahead - & so eventually generated the pressure that caused Germany to mobilize - & thus plunged the World into WWI.
While the German Kaiser did consider the option of not mobilising, the German army and senior politicians were committed to it from the start of the crisis, and did everything they could to stop British attempts at seeking a diplomatic solution succeeding.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis.

ps; The UK mobilised its Navy on the same day Germany mobilised its armed forces 1st August, but didn't mobilise its army until the 3rd August, the day the German army invaded Belgium
 
Likes: 1 person
Sep 2015
13,274
4,901
Brown Township, Ohio
#62
While the German Kaiser did consider the option of not mobilising, the German army and senior politicians were committed to it from the start of the crisis, and did everything they could to stop British attempts at seeking a diplomatic solution succeeding.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis.

ps; The UK mobilised its Navy on the same day Germany mobilised its armed forces 1st August, but didn't mobilise its army until the 3rd August, the day the German army invaded Belgium
Otto von Bismarck comes back but forget what he did. He could have been famous in the 1870 Franco-Prussian War.
 
Nov 2013
2,153
891
NM
#63
It was a free-for-all

It was instability in the Balkans and German fears of Russia's attempts to modernise and expand it's armed forces which caused the war, it had nothing to do with either the railroad or oil.
All sides were scrambling for empires or @ least more colonies - for resources, income, prestige. The UK was trying to keep a favorable balance of forces in Europe - or @ least, not opposed to British interests. Germany was surging, France was surging, Russia trying to modernize. The Ottoman Empire was tottering.

The upshot of the vying & not-quite-struggling was a series of treaties & secret protocols, the sides trying to collect allies & co-belligerents if worse came to worse. & each military kept gaming out mobilization plans & feints, attacks, strategic positions & routes.

The Balkans were unstable - from the clash of cultures, religions, ethnicities & the sheer weight of history. The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand & wife was the spark that set off the fuse.
 
Apr 2015
1,685
1,949
Stockport. UK
#64
All sides were scrambling for empires or @ least more colonies - for resources, income, prestige. The UK was trying to keep a favorable balance of forces in Europe - or @ least, not opposed to British interests. Germany was surging, France was surging, Russia trying to modernize. The Ottoman Empire was tottering.

The upshot of the vying & not-quite-struggling was a series of treaties & secret protocols, the sides trying to collect allies & co-belligerents if worse came to worse. & each military kept gaming out mobilization plans & feints, attacks, strategic positions & routes.

The Balkans were unstable - from the clash of cultures, religions, ethnicities & the sheer weight of history. The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand & wife was the spark that set off the fuse.
Your answer shows that the railway and oil had little, if any, impact on the reason war broke out.
So you have disproved your own theory :mellow:
 
Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#65
It was instability in the Balkans and German fears of Russia's attempts to modernise and expand it's armed forces which caused the war, it had nothing to do with either the railroad or oil.
I don't know why you say that and I have no reason to believe my information is not correct. Perhaps one of the books will convince me otherwise. For sure modern wars cannot be fought without oil and Germany had much to gain from a railroad to Baghdad.

Reading the words of von Bernhardi from the book written before the first world war "The Anglo-German Problem", Germany arranged for that war, very much as the neo-cons Cheney and Bush arranged for the invasion of Iraq and they all did it for the same reason. The power and glory. Co-opting the power and glory of the Bible, just ancients civilizations spoke of war as the will of a god.

"Wherever we open the book of history we find everywhere evidence of the fact that wars begun with virile decision at the right moment have produced, politically as well as socially, the happiest results......

The Great Elector has laid the corner-stone of Prussian power by successive offensive wars. Fredrick the Great has laid the corner-stone of Prussian power by successive offensive wars, and has followed the traces of his glorious ancestors."

We have adopted the German New World Order, what Eisenhower called the Military Industrial Complex. The neo-cons and now Trump is living with this war mentality. "Make America great again" should mean returning public education to teaching a set of American values and a liberal education, not promoting the Military Industrial Complex and sinking us further into debt.

We live as much as a fantasy as the religious folks, because our culture is built on historical half-truths and lies about the glory of war and those Great Men who lead wars. All biased HISTORY.
 
Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#66
Your answer shows that the railway and oil had little, if any, impact on the reason war broke out.
So you have disproved your own theory :mellow:
You are argumentive like a teenager but offer no reasoning, and this time your statement screams a failure to understand the complexity of war. Sometimes it is best to ask questions.

PS, in the thread about socialism I posted an economic explanation that we were in serious economic trouble because of the effort to consolidate power. We begin as civilizations by being civil and end up following the beast that consumes everything for the glory and power of war.
 
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Apr 2015
1,685
1,949
Stockport. UK
#67
The problem seems to be that you are overestimating the importance of Britain in the outbreak of WW1.
The war started due to Austria-Hungary attacking Serbia, this brought Russia into the conflict, which in turn, due to alliances, brought France and Germany into the conflict.
At this moment Britain was still uninvolved as it had no military alliance with any of the major powers in Europe.
It wasn't until the German attack on Belgium with which it did have a treaty, and fears of German control of the continent if France was defeated, that Britain felt compelled to get involved.
 
Likes: 1 person
Sep 2015
13,274
4,901
Brown Township, Ohio
#68
The Trade War has started in earnest. Trump just tariffed China another 100 billion and Xi is hopping mad. Xi retaliated by banning US grain from China. Watch grain prices plummet.
 
Apr 2015
1,685
1,949
Stockport. UK
#69
Sometimes it is best to ask questions.
Ok.

What part did oil play in Austro-Hungary's attack on Serbia.

What part did oil play in Russia's decision to defend Serbia.

What part did oil play in Germany's decision to support A-H

What part did oil play in France's decision to support Russia

What part did oil play in Germany's decision to attack France through Belgium.

What part did oil play in Britain's decision to defend Belgium.
 
Sep 2015
13,274
4,901
Brown Township, Ohio
#70
Ok.

What part did oil play in Austro-Hungary's attack on Serbia.

What part did oil play in Russia's decision to defend Serbia.

What part did oil play in Germany's decision to support A-H

What part did oil play in France's decision to support Russia

What part did oil play in Germany's decision to attack France through Belgium.

What part did oil play in Britain's decision to defend Belgium.
For the most part that was the horse and buggy days. The Cusack's rode hay burners into Serbia.
 

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