Does Anyone Here Truly Believe that "Taxation is Theft?"

Feb 2020
1,748
643
Houston
Greetings fellow libertarians!

"Taxation is Theft" is the underlying principle of my political philosophy.

I believe that taxation is the root of all government over-reach and that anyone who considers himself a libertarian should be collaborating with other libertarians to look for non-theft ways to fund a government that protects our natural rights.

However, on another board, this idea met with pushback from posters claiming to be libertarians.

Therefore, I am tentatively exploring advocating for anarcho-capitalism on the grounds that it may actually not be the taxes that lead to tyrannical government, but that it starts before taxation. That the tyranny die is cast when people first hand over responsibility for personal security to government.

Take the frontier. At first people prospected for gold, trapped furs, built farms and opened stores, while staying well-armed against any attempts to interfere. But soon they realized that there was much money to be made and figured that if they paid a sheriff, they could put down their guns and earn with both hands.

That lead slowly but surely to the forcible collection of taxes to pay for more aircraft carriers, midnight basketball and subsidies for not growing food.

Alternatively, I am also advocated a system of government that Ii call "Service-based Meritocracy." More details on that in threads I will start.

I just wanted you to know where I'm coming from if some threads seem to be in complete contradiction to my statements in other threads.

Looking forward to your input!

Seymour
 
Aug 2019
1,476
1,721
Albuquerque, NM
Taxation is theft is about the dumbest ideal of libertarians, republicans, anybody. Taxes are necessary to run a country. It's actually more theft for most individuals who get far more back in benefits than they put in.

It's just unrealistic, ideological nonsense. Go live off the grid in the woods if you don't want to pay taxes. Not in civilized society
 
Sep 2019
2,488
2,807
Louisville, Ky
As with most Libertarians you proclaim what you want and offer nothing viable to achieve it....there is a reason you will NEVER gain a footing or succeed. I will say however that your version is further out there than most.
 
Dec 2015
21,312
22,345
Arizona
Yeah Yeah..RON PAUL--blah blah.
Libertarians are proponents of a philosophy that embraces free-market ideology, limited government, and a certain form of individual liberty. They would like to take the government and drown it in the proverbial bathtub. Unfortunately, libertarians tend to ride on theoretical unicorns that don’t take them too far in the real world.
Consequently, there are NO Libertarian countries. Anywhere. Because. Libertarianism is not plausible.
From Salon:
1. The inequality problem: Why do some people end up with most of the toys? The fact that in a capitalist system, money seems to flow into the hands of the few is a source of big headaches for many libertarians, though not all—some seem to regard any market outcome as the hand of God herself.
2. The public goods problem. In the libertarian utopia, you would find nothing but individuals making private transactions in private markets. Those exchanges between individuals would always be fair, because the laws of supply and demand would make sure that you got the things you need at a fair price. You want a pizza, you buy a pizza from a pizzeria, which makes it for you at a reasonable price. Everybody’s happy.
Only, what if you want to buy your pizza in the evening, and you need streetlights in order to walk to the pizzeria? Now you’ve got a problem because you can’t go out and buy a streetlight. You need a street to drive to the pizzeria and you can't go buy a street. Libertarians will try to argue that many things considered public goods can, in fact, be supplied by private markets. How would this work in the case of streetlights? AND streets?
3. The regulation problem. Libertarians famously oppose government regulation of business. They assume that markets do not need any regulation because they are naturally competitive, and in competitive markets, good ideas and products will flourish, and bad ones will be punished (clearly, they haven’t watched cable TV lately). For them, competition is the great creative force of the universe and the best human endeavors are the result of people beating their rivals.
Reality check: Markets are not invariably naturally competitive. In fact, many have a tendency to move toward harmful conditions like an oligopoly, which turns them into anti-competitive entities.

AND then there's the TAX problem: Taxation is theft.
Let's be real.
Libertarians simply don't feel part of the government, so they don't feel they should be taxed by it. Libertarians simply don't care for the constitution.
Cuz there's this: Article I, Section 8, Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.
 
Jul 2014
16,482
10,870
massachusetts
Greetings fellow libertarians!

"Taxation is Theft" is the underlying principle of my political philosophy.

I believe that taxation is the root of all government over-reach and that anyone who considers himself a libertarian should be collaborating with other libertarians to look for non-theft ways to fund a government that protects our natural rights.

However, on another board, this idea met with pushback from posters claiming to be libertarians.

Therefore, I am tentatively exploring advocating for anarcho-capitalism on the grounds that it may actually not be the taxes that lead to tyrannical government, but that it starts before taxation. That the tyranny die is cast when people first hand over responsibility for personal security to government.

Take the frontier. At first people prospected for gold, trapped furs, built farms and opened stores, while staying well-armed against any attempts to interfere. But soon they realized that there was much money to be made and figured that if they paid a sheriff, they could put down their guns and earn with both hands.

That lead slowly but surely to the forcible collection of taxes to pay for more aircraft carriers, midnight basketball and subsidies for not growing food.

Alternatively, I am also advocated a system of government that Ii call "Service-based Meritocracy." More details on that in threads I will start.

I just wanted you to know where I'm coming from if some threads seem to be in complete contradiction to my statements in other threads.

Looking forward to your input!

Seymour
Seymour,
How does that work?
Without a government collecting taxes, you have warlords collecting taxes, how many rights do you think you get when a warlord comes to collect taxes?

The problem with Libertarianism is that it doesn't work, never has, never will.
It can exist momentarily, but it implodes within a very short period of time.
Why do you think that is?
 
Jul 2019
12,636
9,254
Georgia
As with most Libertarians you proclaim what you want and offer nothing viable to achieve it....there is a reason you will NEVER gain a footing or succeed. I will say however that your version is further out there than most.
their entire political ideology can fit on a bumper sticker.

I used to call myself a libertarian but that's because I was extremely ignorant to how the real world works

it's the laziest ideology ever,
or maybe the most entitled ideology ever
nobody loves paying taxes or likes the government, but we realize the purpose and don't whine about it 24/7
 
Feb 2020
1,748
643
Houston
Seymour,
How does that work?
Without a government collecting taxes, you have warlords collecting taxes, how many rights do you think you get when a warlord comes to collect taxes?
A warlord is government, if he comes to collect taxes. That is how governments started in the first place.

The problem with Libertarianism is that it doesn't work, never has, never will.
It can exist momentarily, but it implodes within a very short period of time.
Why do you think that is?
When has libertarianism existed temporarily?

Republics, democracies, etc. always turn to tyranny. If they did not start as tyrannies pretending to be republics like ours did.
 
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Dec 2018
6,746
1,985
New England
Greetings fellow libertarians!

"Taxation is Theft" is the underlying principle of my political philosophy.

I believe that taxation is the root of all government over-reach and that anyone who considers himself a libertarian should be collaborating with other libertarians to look for non-theft ways to fund a government that protects our natural rights.

However, on another board, this idea met with pushback from posters claiming to be libertarians.

Therefore, I am tentatively exploring advocating for anarcho-capitalism on the grounds that it may actually not be the taxes that lead to tyrannical government, but that it starts before taxation. That the tyranny die is cast when people first hand over responsibility for personal security to government.

Take the frontier. At first people prospected for gold, trapped furs, built farms and opened stores, while staying well-armed against any attempts to interfere. But soon they realized that there was much money to be made and figured that if they paid a sheriff, they could put down their guns and earn with both hands.

That lead slowly but surely to the forcible collection of taxes to pay for more aircraft carriers, midnight basketball and subsidies for not growing food.

Alternatively, I am also advocated a system of government that Ii call "Service-based Meritocracy." More details on that in threads I will start.

I just wanted you to know where I'm coming from if some threads seem to be in complete contradiction to my statements in other threads.

Looking forward to your input!

Seymour
No, taxation is not theft. One can make a case that excessive taxation is theft, and there is a rich debate to be had over what constitutes "excessive," but if you're going to have a nation state and the rule of law it needs to be funded.

There's a fundamental contract at work here: if you want the benefits and protections that civilization offers, you have to pay your dues.
 
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Feb 2020
518
298
Kalifornia
“If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies are legalized.” - Lysander Spooner