Don't fool yourself -- without college you are destined to be poor

Sep 2018
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1,139
cleveland ohio
College Graduates Are 177 Times More Likely To Earn $4 Million Or More

Another large report hit the higher education marketplace recently showing, yet again, the value in getting a college education. Although it was billed as a deeper look at the risks of going to college, and it is, in the report’s lead-in, Doug Webber, the report’s author, was clear.

He literally wrote, “Let me be clear, the financial returns to graduating from a four-year college far outweigh any costs for the average student. Given the choice, I would much rather be a 22-year-old college graduate with $30,000 in debt … than an 18-year-old who decides not to enroll in college at all. The direct financial rewards of a degree are enormous, and don’t even begin to capture the many other dimensions that attending college can positively impact one’s life.”

College Graduates Are 177 Times More Likely To Earn $4 Million Or More
 
Last edited:
Mar 2013
10,154
10,959
Middle Tennessee
College Graduates Are 177 Times More Likely To Earn $4 Million Or More

Another large report hit the higher education marketplace recently showing, yet again, the value in getting a college education. Although it was billed as a deeper look at the risks of going to college, and it is, in the report’s lead-in, Doug Webber, the report’s author, was clear.

He literally wrote, “Let me be clear, the financial returns to graduating from a four-year college far outweigh any costs for the average student. Given the choice, I would much rather be a 22-year-old college graduate with $30,000 in debt … than an 18-year-old who decides not to enroll in college at all. The direct financial rewards of a degree are enormous, and don’t even begin to capture the many other dimensions that attending college can positively impact one’s life.”

College Graduates Are 177 Times More Likely To Earn $4 Million Or More

$30,000 ??? What a fucking joke !!! Try $80,000 to $150,000 for a well recognized school. Of course I know a lot of 4 year degrees are making my starbucks.
 
May 2018
7,017
4,836
Chicago
I made it advertising with no degree whatsoever. Trust me, I'm far from poor, and I work for one of the oldest and largest ad agencies in the world. While I feel that for most people education is important and valuable, it is not the only ticket to success. What really matters to employers is talent.

Smart employers recognize that. While I realize I am indeed an outlier, I have also never had a problem getting work. My opinion is always respected and sought in daily meetings. Trust me, every day I wake up and can't believe I get to go to work and do what I do. I love what I do. Every day is a blessing. I guarantee you, I am probably the only person in my office with no college degree.

My point is this- people learn in different ways. For me, hands on was my best way to learn. For others, it's a classroom. I was fortunate enough to have people who believed in me to get me where I am now. Those people also had multiple degrees and knew I had none. I just kept banging on doors until they took notice. Trust me when I say this, that is not a route I would recommend to anyone. It's a hard road and it takes a long time to get anywhere. But I did get there, and those people who helped me get there understood who I was and how I learned best. I owe them so much for what they did for my career.

It was the right road for me. I hated college. It just was not my thing. I still got where I wanted to go though, even though it took longer.

So, I guess I'm saying that college is not for everyone, nor should it be. And it's high time we allowed outliers like myself to do what we are capable of without degrees. I got seriously lucky. I'm not sure what I did could be done now. But it should.
 
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Dec 2015
17,959
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Arizona
I made it advertising with no degree whatsoever. Trust me, I'm far from poor, and I work for one of the oldest and largest ad agencies in the world. While I feel that for most people education is important and valuable, it is not the only ticket to success. What really matters to employers is talent.

Smart employers recognize that. While I realize I am indeed an outlier, I have also never had a problem getting work. My opinion is always respected and sought in daily meetings. Trust me, every day I wake up and can't believe I get to go to work and do what I do. I love what I do. Every day is a blessing. I guarantee you, I am probably the only person in my office with no college degree.

My point is this- people learn in different ways. For me, hands on was my best way to learn. For others, it's a classroom. I was fortunate enough to have people who believed in me to get me where I am now. Those people also had multiple degrees and knew I had none. I just kept banging on doors until they took notice. Trust me when I say this, that is not a route I would recommend to anyone. It's a hard road and it takes a long time to get anywhere. But I did get there, and those people who helped me get there understood who I was and how I learned best. I owe them so much for what they did for my career.

It was the right road for me. I hated college. It just was not my thing. I still got where I wanted to go though, even though it took longer.

So, I guess I'm saying that college is not for everyone, nor should it be. And it's high time we allowed outliers like myself to do what we are capable of without degrees. I got seriously lucky. I'm not sure what I did could be done now. But it should.

Lee, I believe you are the exception rather than the rule. You rolled the dice and won, but not everyone wins. In fact, most don't. When I encouraged my sons and my students to go to college, I wasn't necessarily talking about a four-year degree.
I was preaching marketable skills enabling them to get not only a good job but the benefits that come with that job--healthcare insurance, pension, raises, advancement and the chance to work with other educated people.

Higher education isn't just about academics. It's socialization, opportunity, connections, politics, religion, discipline, and determination---all of which move us upward--forward. It's a critical rite of passage propelling us into living larger, changing our status in the social pecking order. Education is power---no matter how you look at it.

We live in a very specialized world today--one that usually requires higher education.
Fortunately, you found your way via another path, so YES. You are very fortunate. Obviously, you have skills that helped you achieve your goals---and GOOD FOR YOU.
 
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Jul 2008
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Virginia Beach, VA
I work in construction (finance/administrative side) and I make good money with no degree. I realize that I’m smarter than average but skills needed in an office environment can be learned with no college. If you can master Excel and learn a little bit about databases then you can succeed as well.
 
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Dec 2015
17,959
17,067
Arizona
I work in construction (finance/administrative side) and I make good money with no degree. I realize that I’m smarter than average but skills needed in an office environment can be learned with no college. If you can master Excel and learn a little bit about databases then you can succeed as well.
AND what do you suppose TODAY'S employers are looking for on a resume?? I think you are forgetting about the competition. If I'm an employer looking for someone with technical skills, spreadsheets (Excel), databases, formulas, grids, charts, budgets, etc.---and I have two applicants. John has an accounting/business degree from a 4-yr accredited university and Mary has no degree but assures the employer she has mastered Excel. The salary and benefits have been posted and all else is equal. WHO will get the job?
 
Dec 2018
2,882
2,064
Wisconsin
Dont fool yourself without college you are destined to be poor

Titles like this accomplish nothing because they’re outright bull shit.

I have a 4-year communications degree and yes, I make more than the average American. Good for me.

But you know who makes more than me? My brother-in-law, who got a 2-year welding certificate and now welds for a major chemical plant.

You know else? My friend Jeff who got a 2-year mechanic degree and makes over $100K a year working as a mechanic.

You know who else? My friend Tory who BARELY graduated HS, hasn’t touched a classroom since, and now manages two gyms in Chicago and hosts a weekly health podcast.

If you want to know why conservatives call liberals the party of the elite, bull shit like this is front and center.
 

bar

Jan 2014
164
139
Clara, while I think a college degree is important and would never discourage one from that goal... I don’t think it is the magic solution to being successful.
I have been in positions where I hired individuals for various jobs over the years and there were times when I looked beyond the degree and simply hired the best person for the job. Conversely, there were times when I was looking for someone specifically with a degree.
Degree or not, a person needs the motivation and work ethic to be successful.
(And, of course, that brings up the question of what “successful” is)
 
May 2018
7,017
4,836
Chicago
Lee, I believe you are the exception rather than the rule. You rolled the dice and won, but not everyone wins. In fact, most don't. When I encouraged my sons and my students to go to college, I wasn't necessarily talking about a four-year degree.
I was preaching marketable skills enabling them to get not only a good job but the benefits that come with that job--healthcare insurance, pension, raises, advancement and the chance to work with other educated people.

Higher education isn't just about academics. It's socialization, opportunity, connections, politics, religion, discipline, and determination---all of which move us upward--forward. It's a critical rite of passage propelling us into living larger, changing our status in the social pecking order. Education is power---no matter how you look at it.

We live in a very specialized world today--one that usually requires higher education.
Fortunately, you found your way via another path, so YES. You are very fortunate. Obviously, you have skills that helped you achieve your goals---and GOOD FOR YOU.
Did I say any different? I get it. It’s good for most people. But it’s not the ONLY way.
 
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Reactions: Clara007
Sep 2018
6,703
1,139
cleveland ohio
I made it advertising with no degree whatsoever. Trust me, I'm far from poor, and I work for one of the oldest and largest ad agencies in the world. While I feel that for most people education is important and valuable, it is not the only ticket to success. What really matters to employers is talent.

Smart employers recognize that. While I realize I am indeed an outlier, I have also never had a problem getting work. My opinion is always respected and sought in daily meetings. Trust me, every day I wake up and can't believe I get to go to work and do what I do. I love what I do. Every day is a blessing. I guarantee you, I am probably the only person in my office with no college degree.

My point is this- people learn in different ways. For me, hands on was my best way to learn. For others, it's a classroom. I was fortunate enough to have people who believed in me to get me where I am now. Those people also had multiple degrees and knew I had none. I just kept banging on doors until they took notice. Trust me when I say this, that is not a route I would recommend to anyone. It's a hard road and it takes a long time to get anywhere. But I did get there, and those people who helped me get there understood who I was and how I learned best. I owe them so much for what they did for my career.

It was the right road for me. I hated college. It just was not my thing. I still got where I wanted to go though, even though it took longer.

So, I guess I'm saying that college is not for everyone, nor should it be. And it's high time we allowed outliers like myself to do what we are capable of without degrees. I got seriously lucky. I'm not sure what I did could be done now. But it should.
okay this is what i mean when i tell people anecdotes are worthless
Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method.

Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[1][2] Similarly, psychologists have found that due to cognitive bias people are more likely to remember notable or unusual examples rather than typical examples.[3] Thus, even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is typical requires statistical evidence.[4] Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences of close peers which may not be typical.

The term is sometimes used in a legal context to describe certain kinds of testimony which are uncorroborated by objective, independent evidence such as notarized documentation, photographs, audio-visual recordings, etc.

When used in advertising or promotion of a product, service, or idea, anecdotal reports are often called a testimonial, which are highly regulated[5] or banned in some[which?] jurisdictions. Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia