Education Proposal

Dec 2018
1,830
1,170
Wisconsin
#1
This is a thought I've had for awhile now and wanted to see what others opinions.

The Bernie Sanders wing of politics is pushing for free college for everyone. There's no question that student loan debt has become a crisis in this country as more people are entering the job marketing and spending much of their income on debt and spending less of their income back into the economy. This is also amplified by the fact that wages have stayed relatively flat over the last few decades while cost of education has skyrocketed.

However the conservative wing of politics believes people should pay their own way through school. The belief is if you want to get a higher education you should stand on your own two feet and tax-payer dollars shouldn't go towards it.

So I have a thought in the middle. What if two-year degrees and skilled-work certification programs were free? There are a TON of kids out there who feel they have to go to a four-year school because "that's what you're supposed to do." A lot of these kids though go to school, see it isn't for them, and occur thousands of dollars of debt without having the degree to benefit from. If there was free two-year option, kids could take specialty degree programs without fear of getting harmful debt. If there is one section of the job market where there are ALWAYS jobs available, it's in the skilled trade section. Also, it would encourage kids struggling to get through high school to finish because they know there is a more tailored school system at the end of the road that will cost them nothing. And for the tax-payers, it would certainly cost a FRACTION of what free college for everyone would cost.

Thoughts?
 
Jun 2012
41,958
15,170
Barsoom
#2
There is no such thing as free college.

The word “free” in the context of "free college" is an idiomatic expression regarding something without a cost. The cost would be an increase in taxes that each person will pay for the rest of their life.

The easy access to loans, and especially free tuition, would further perpetuate the "every body gets a trophey" mentality that is the scourge of our society. Nothing earned is nothing of value and cannot be respected. As inane and anti-education as colleges are today, the easy access numbs the impetus of students to push back vis-a-vis if they had to earn that privilege in real time.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Jan 2014
164
139
#3
California has a great community college network with classes that will easily transfer to various four year colleges.
The cost is very little and there are programs that pay most of the cost for low income individuals.
One can go for two years and complete required math and English courses and it gives a young person time to come to make a decision on which path they want to take.
Not sure about other places, but the community college near me also offers several two year programs in areas of nursing and some others that I can’t recall at the moment.
 
Dec 2018
1,830
1,170
Wisconsin
#4
There is no such thing as free college.

The word “free” in the context of "free college" is an idiomatic expression regarding something without a cost. The cost would be an increase in taxes that each person will pay for the rest of their life.

The easy access to loans, and especially free tuition, would further perpetuate the "every body gets a trophey" mentality that is the scourge of our society. Nothing earned is nothing of value and cannot be respected. As inane and anti-education as colleges are today, the easy access numbs the impetus of students to push back vis-a-vis if they had to earn that privilege in real time.
You are correct that nothing is free. While I didn't include it in my OP, the question would come of how to pay for a program such as this. Option A would be to increase taxes, whether it be on all citizens, all corporations, select citizens, select corporations, etc. Option B would be to not increase taxes, but shift government spending away from program X and towards program Y (X=TBD, Y=my proposal).
 
Nov 2012
40,545
11,692
Lebanon, TN
#5
This is a thought I've had for awhile now and wanted to see what others opinions.

The Bernie Sanders wing of politics is pushing for free college for everyone. There's no question that student loan debt has become a crisis in this country as more people are entering the job marketing and spending much of their income on debt and spending less of their income back into the economy. This is also amplified by the fact that wages have stayed relatively flat over the last few decades while cost of education has skyrocketed.

However the conservative wing of politics believes people should pay their own way through school. The belief is if you want to get a higher education you should stand on your own two feet and tax-payer dollars shouldn't go towards it.

So I have a thought in the middle. What if two-year degrees and skilled-work certification programs were free? There are a TON of kids out there who feel they have to go to a four-year school because "that's what you're supposed to do." A lot of these kids though go to school, see it isn't for them, and occur thousands of dollars of debt without having the degree to benefit from. If there was free two-year option, kids could take specialty degree programs without fear of getting harmful debt. If there is one section of the job market where there are ALWAYS jobs available, it's in the skilled trade section. Also, it would encourage kids struggling to get through high school to finish because they know there is a more tailored school system at the end of the road that will cost them nothing. And for the tax-payers, it would certainly cost a FRACTION of what free college for everyone would cost.

Thoughts?
you claim: Free college okay

Are Colleges going to supply housing at NO COST to the students
Are professors going to work for free
Are their staff going to work for free
The Administration work for free
The house and grounds keeping going to work for free
Security work for free
Meal plans at on cost for the Students?

No the first rule of ecomics TINSTAAFL (pronounced TEN salf al) There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch Someone always has to pay.
 
Dec 2015
15,874
14,776
Arizona
#6
There is no such thing as free college.

The word “free” in the context of "free college" is an idiomatic expression regarding something without a cost. The cost would be an increase in taxes that each person will pay for the rest of their life.

The easy access to loans, and especially free tuition, would further perpetuate the "every body gets a trophey" mentality that is the scourge of our society. Nothing earned is nothing of value and cannot be respected. As inane and anti-education as colleges are today, the easy access numbs the impetus of students to push back vis-a-vis if they had to earn that privilege in real time.

Shiver me timbers, Jimmy! It's a once-in-a-lifetime moment. I actually agree with you! Sort of.
What I mean is that I agree with the "nothing earned is nothing of value" idea. A college education (2-year, 4-year, Masters or Ph.D.) is supposed to be challenging and hard work. It's supposed to be taxing, strenuous/exhausting and there are LOTS of young people who aren't prepared to be pushed. There are too many who won't/don't go to class, don't want to study, and just plain don't care. It's called immaturity and it's a pretty expensive party time.

If kids are smart, they'll start getting college credits while they are in high school. They'll enroll in a community/vocational college for 2 yrs--work part-time--and then transfer to a state school--if needed.
Not everyone needs to go to Harvard and not everyone needs a 4-year degree. But these students DO NEED TO earn their degree, themselves, which means they need to WORK part-time--pace their classes--and with a little help from the parents and possibly grandparents their student loans will be manageable. It can be done. I did it. My kids did it.
 
Nov 2012
40,545
11,692
Lebanon, TN
#7
@Clara007

My Daughters got scholarships what was not covered by the first Scholarship they used the J.O.B. scholarship plan (They worked 40 hours/week and went to college) Oldest daughter got a paid internship where she got her first job at Deutsche Bank, she was hired after graduation in Risk Management...

My youngest Graduated without a penny of debt, we had a college fund and money she saved after she graduated she purchased her first home with a 100% down 0% Interest $0 monthly payment mortgage

My youngest daughter was able to quit work at age 38... and live off if their family investments.
 
Dec 2018
1,830
1,170
Wisconsin
#8
you claim: Free college okay

Are Colleges going to supply housing at NO COST to the students
Are professors going to work for free
Are their staff going to work for free
The Administration work for free
The house and grounds keeping going to work for free
Security work for free
Meal plans at on cost for the Students?

No the first rule of ecomics TINSTAAFL (pronounced TEN salf al) There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch Someone always has to pay.
While I posted this as a "high level" proposal, you seem to want to poke holes without discussing the larger features and benefits of the program. Regardless, let me address your questions, as I see it.

No, housing costs still need to be paid by students. My program is aimed to cover tuition. Though I believe the majority of 2-year programs don't require/offer housing
No, professors are not working for free. Nothing in my proposal would even suggest that
No, the staff are not working for free. See above response
No, the administration are not working for free. I'm starting to feel like I'm being trolled
No, the house and grounds keeping are not working for free. Okay I've put way more effort into this response than I should've
No, security are not working for free. I've made it this far so I'm pretty much pot-committed
Yes... HOLY SHIT YOU GOT A YES. Students still have to pay for food. But like housing, most two-year programs don't require a meal plan

Well that was fun.

Care to address the costs/benefits of the program I hypothesized?
 
Likes: Clara007
Nov 2012
40,545
11,692
Lebanon, TN
#9
While I posted this as a "high level" proposal, you seem to want to poke holes without discussing the larger features and benefits of the program. Regardless, let me address your questions, as I see it.

No, housing costs still need to be paid by students. My program is aimed to cover tuition. Though I believe the majority of 2-year programs don't require/offer housing
No, professors are not working for free. Nothing in my proposal would even suggest that
No, the staff are not working for free. See above response
No, the administration are not working for free. I'm starting to feel like I'm being trolled
No, the house and grounds keeping are not working for free. Okay I've put way more effort into this response than I should've
No, security are not working for free. I've made it this far so I'm pretty much pot-committed
Yes... HOLY SHIT YOU GOT A YES. Students still have to pay for food. But like housing, most two-year programs don't require a meal plan

Well that was fun.

Care to address the costs/benefits of the program I hypothesized?
Who is paying for the housing professors staff etc. (I am sure they are receiving pay where is that money coming from)

Someone has to pay these monies it is not FREE (at no Cost to anyone)


Believe me People that have to pay for their education do much better.. than those that it is given to them. the former VALUE IT MORE and it becomes a greater value to society

it may be me giving out of the goodness of my heart. or it is the government confiscating money from me in taxes to cover the cost. Someone will pay
 
Dec 2018
1,830
1,170
Wisconsin
#10
Who is paying for the housing professors staff etc. (I am sure they are receiving pay where is that money coming from)

Someone has to pay these monies it is not FREE (at no Cost to anyone)


it may be me giving out of the goodness of my heart. or it is the government confiscating money from me in taxes to cover the cost. Someone will pay
Correct. On a macro-level, my proposal is very simply. Instead of the individual students paying for their tuition, those expenses are covered through the government. The government funding would either come from increased taxes or shifting spending from A to B. All additional expenses that come from attending these 2-year programs are still born by the student themselves. All staffing are paid as normal.
 

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