Exclusive: Americans say Soleimani's killing made US less safe, Trump 'reckless' on Iran

RNG

Forum Staff
Apr 2013
41,067
29,238
La La Land North
And related to this, IMO is the fact that Pompeo just reiterated the fact that the US will revoke existing visas and not issue new visas to International Criminal Court personnel.
 
Jul 2019
9,776
6,581
Georgia
For anyone interested, here is where the formal writeup of the results of the cited poll can be found.:

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2020-01/usat_iran_topline_010920.pdf
some interesting numbers there

first I noticed independents rely on written news more than Repubs and Dems do

31% of Republicans think the killing of Soleimani has made America less safe.

35% of Republicans believe that this could lead to Iran developing nuclear weapons (compared to 12% who don't)

47% of Republicans think this could lead to war with Iran (15% don't)

these are decent size chunks

and then womp-womp

8. At this moment, would you support or oppose U.S. airstrikes on targets in Iran including cultural and world heritage sites?

39% of Republicans support that. Compared to 42% who don't, however it's sad that 39% are down with striking cultural and world heritage sites.

65% of Repubs are opposed to Congress limiting the president's war powers

~~~~

isn't there a poster on this forum who's always calling Dems "pro-war"? He might want to take a look at this one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: baloney_detector
Feb 2007
6,192
3,860
USA
Can a complex long-term strategy be formulated and presented using 4 and fewer letter words?
Oh, that request is quite easy to answer, concisely summarized in less than a dozen four or fewer letter words no less.:

"The long term plan is war with Iran, no more, no less."

At least this is what I've gathered based upon a lack of any transparent, realpolitik-based effort by the Trump administration regarding Iran.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Clara007 and RNG
Sep 2019
232
85
CA
And with no clear long-term strategy, short of seemingly apparent eventual all out war with Iran, I think these polling results kind of make sense.
According to this research, 85% of 4 year olds still believe in Santa Claus. How many kids still believe in Santa?

My point is, it's easy to feel unsafe when you don't have a clue what's happening in the world or what we have in place to handle it.

I met a young person yesterday who was shocked to learn that we have military bases in the USA. So it's not shocking to me that there are stupid people who are also scared.

My own wife was also scared because she was ignorant to the facts, once she took the time to look it up for herself, she's not scared anymore. the best way to defeat stupidity is with knowledge.


SOOOO, with that said, The US eliminated a terrorist, except that our President didn't invade another country to do so like Obama did by crossing into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden. Trump executed the plan in Iraq where we have a presence and multiple bases of operation. Trump executed a terrorist responsible for devising several terrorist plots, responsible for over 600 american lives lost, helped pay for terrorist groups and devised plans for them to execute like the Embassy attack, taught his terrorist to plant IEDs and where to plant them to kill more people, and has spent a lifetime working to bring chaos while the rest of us hope for peace. How many drone attacks did Obama authorize? And the one that killed a terrorist leader initiated by a president you don't like is going to cause you all to whine that you don't feel safe? Go hide under a blanket and fear the boogie man while the rest of us with a brain recognize that the actions of Iran were pathetic because they are terrified of a war with our country because they know they'd lose both the war and their control over the people. Why? Because Iranian people are NOT our enemy...there are some amazing people in Iran and here from Iran. The people who are a threat are the idiots in power who control and murder their own people to keep control. If a single American was killed by their multiple missiles, we only needed to destroy their 3 oil refineries to render their entire country impoverished and unable to fight anyone. We already have them embargoed and we have shut them off from the world. They would starve and the people would rise up against their leaders and end it themselves before it ever touched our shores.
 
Feb 2007
6,192
3,860
USA
According to this research, 85% of 4 year olds still believe in Santa Claus. How many kids still believe in Santa?

My point is, it's easy to feel unsafe when you don't have a clue what's happening in the world or what we have in place to handle it.

I met a young person yesterday who was shocked to learn that we have military bases in the USA. So it's not shocking to me that there are stupid people who are also scared.

My own wife was also scared because she was ignorant to the facts, once she took the time to look it up for herself, she's not scared anymore. the best way to defeat stupidity is with knowledge.


SOOOO, with that said, The US eliminated a terrorist, except that our President didn't invade another country to do so like Obama did by crossing into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden. Trump executed the plan in Iraq where we have a presence and multiple bases of operation. Trump executed a terrorist responsible for devising several terrorist plots, responsible for over 600 american lives lost, helped pay for terrorist groups and devised plans for them to execute like the Embassy attack, taught his terrorist to plant IEDs and where to plant them to kill more people, and has spent a lifetime working to bring chaos while the rest of us hope for peace. How many drone attacks did Obama authorize? And the one that killed a terrorist leader initiated by a president you don't like is going to cause you all to whine that you don't feel safe? Go hide under a blanket and fear the boogie man while the rest of us with a brain recognize that the actions of Iran were pathetic because they are terrified of a war with our country because they know they'd lose both the war and their control over the people. Why? Because Iranian people are NOT our enemy...there are some amazing people in Iran and here from Iran. The people who are a threat are the idiots in power who control and murder their own people to keep control. If a single American was killed by their multiple missiles, we only needed to destroy their 3 oil refineries to render their entire country impoverished and unable to fight anyone. We already have them embargoed and we have shut them off from the world. They would starve and the people would rise up against their leaders and end it themselves before it ever touched our shores.
Sure, Soleimani was a terrorist, particularly in the eyes of the US and West in general. But, he also was a top Iran general. And most certainly, being rather fiercely nationalistic, even ordinary Iranians who didn't care for Suleiman regarding crackdowns by the government on the people that he supported could forget those crackdowns in an instant when they see their country-by extension of that military leader being killed-being attacked. And, average Iranians are likely rather happy that Iran itself hasn't been attacked...just yet. But if the US decides to bomb their oil industry, ordinary Iranians will most certainly view that as an even greater attack on Iran than the assassination of Soleimani.

Furthermore, what is there to prevent other countries from dealing with Iran, particularly since the US simply doesn't have broad international support even for the current sanctions on Iran? Is the US going to bomb them too? Or blockade their ships from getting through to Iran? Thus, American power boastfulness, in reality, only goes so far.

Finally, it is entirely incorrect to view Iran as if it was the equivalent of a North Korea of the Middle East. The truth is, the Iranian government simply isn't as authoritarian as many people in the US seem to exaggerate it to be. And, while at times some-or even many-Iranians rise up over certain rights or liberties being trampled on by the Iranian government, the Iranian government-particularly the hardliners-has been quite clever in knowing just how far they can go without there being long-term and significantly widespread desire amongst the public to actually topple the regime. (And heck, they might not even want to topple their parliament since they are voted in by the people.)

So, to me it appears that your conclusions at the tail end of your paragraph above just aren't that well-based upon reality.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Clara007
Dec 2018
5,651
1,519
New England
That's your claim, based on pure convenience for your position. It's not based on reality.
Poster after poster on this forum has explained it's about who was killed. But you (predictably :rolleyes:) want to imagine your own hypothetical to pretend it's not really important to us.

A clear data point against your claim is to look at Syria and Turkey. Trump was criticized for cutting and running and not defending our ally, which damaged our political position in the region. A criticism for NOT taking military action.

Another example:
Was Trump criticized for increasing the magnitude by almost a factor of four between 2016 and 2018?
Nope.

Reality doesn't support your conjecture.
Actually, it does support it. The larger point is that the anti-Trump left (and that’s just about then entire left) will criticize him no matter what he does (or doesn’t do).

Ironically, he’s setting their agenda, whether they realize it or not.
 
Dec 2015
19,719
19,790
Arizona
According to this research, 85% of 4 year olds still believe in Santa Claus. How many kids still believe in Santa?

My point is, it's easy to feel unsafe when you don't have a clue what's happening in the world or what we have in place to handle it.

I met a young person yesterday who was shocked to learn that we have military bases in the USA. So it's not shocking to me that there are stupid people who are also scared.

My own wife was also scared because she was ignorant to the facts, once she took the time to look it up for herself, she's not scared anymore. the best way to defeat stupidity is with knowledge.


SOOOO, with that said, The US eliminated a terrorist, except that our President didn't invade another country to do so like Obama did by crossing into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden. Trump executed the plan in Iraq where we have a presence and multiple bases of operation. Trump executed a terrorist responsible for devising several terrorist plots, responsible for over 600 american lives lost, helped pay for terrorist groups and devised plans for them to execute like the Embassy attack, taught his terrorist to plant IEDs and where to plant them to kill more people, and has spent a lifetime working to bring chaos while the rest of us hope for peace. How many drone attacks did Obama authorize? And the one that killed a terrorist leader initiated by a president you don't like is going to cause you all to whine that you don't feel safe? Go hide under a blanket and fear the boogie man while the rest of us with a brain recognize that the actions of Iran were pathetic because they are terrified of a war with our country because they know they'd lose both the war and their control over the people. Why? Because Iranian people are NOT our enemy...there are some amazing people in Iran and here from Iran. The people who are a threat are the idiots in power who control and murder their own people to keep control. If a single American was killed by their multiple missiles, we only needed to destroy their 3 oil refineries to render their entire country impoverished and unable to fight anyone. We already have them embargoed and we have shut them off from the world. They would starve and the people would rise up against their leaders and end it themselves before it ever touched our shores.
Your logic is seriously flawed. YES--Both men were deadly enemies of the United States and likely targets. Both were responsible for attacks on Americans throughout the world. Both were killed in foreign lands without the approval of the local authorities — bin Laden in Pakistan and Soleimani in Iraq. But that's where the similarities end.
Bin Laden's death was a damaging blow to Al Qaeda, a small stateless terrorist group with which the United States was formally at war — duly authorized by Congress. It was an act carefully deliberated over many months that would not conceivably trigger a broader conflict. In contrast, killing Soleimani was a direct attack on a hostile nation state, but one with which we are not yet at war.
It was initiated by what appears to have been a presidential impulse, without consultation or approval of Congress or OUR allies. It was certain to prompt immediate retaliation and, quite possibly, war. It was precisely the kind of act feared by those who have opposed the concentration of war-making powers on the president alone, hence the *War Resolution currently being voted on.
Finding Bin Laden was YEARS in the making. Why? Because HE was behind the 9/11 attacks on this country and Osama bin Laden was also involved PRIOR to 9/11 in the USS Cole bombing and the 1998 United States embassy bombings in East Africa.

*The War Powers Resolution is a federal law intended to check the U.S. president's power to commit the United States to an armed conflict without the consent of the U.S. Congress.
 
Nov 2005
9,830
4,612
California
Actually, it does support it.
You say that, but in no way justify that claim...
I just pointed out a specific example that was directly parallel to this one. Trump escalating military attacks four times what they were under Obama, but no liberal complaints.
So how does that justify it?

Trying to use the second example as justification is just lame. It's like having an affair, getting yelled at by the wife, and then the husband proclaims that she would yell at him even if he hadn't had the affair.
Again, you're simply assuming your own conclusion, regardless of the evidence.


The larger point is that the anti-Trump left (and that’s just about then entire left) will criticize him no matter what he does (or doesn’t do).
You are wrong. My first example showed that.
I can give you many, many other examples of Trump's actions or statements where he wasn't criticized, but you would just ignore them.

But I'll give another anyways...
Trump has openly stated (and acted upon) battling against opioid addiction.
Do you see liberals saying that he shouldn't battle against opioid addiction? No.

Hell. Here's another.

I admit there are things that both of the parties get hypocritical on. What was good for the goose suddenly becomes atrocious for the gander.
But Soleimanis IS NOT one of those issues.
 
Last edited:
Dec 2018
5,651
1,519
New England
So how does that justify it?
Because any fair reading of my post would not limit the larger point only to actions taken.

Gosh, if anyone would have appreciated the full spectrum of potential gainsaying I would have bet good money it would have been you.