Exclusive: Americans say Soleimani's killing made US less safe, Trump 'reckless' on Iran

Nov 2005
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That's your claim, based on pure convenience for your position. It's not based on reality.
Poster after poster on this forum has explained it's about who was killed. But you (predictably :rolleyes:) want to imagine your own hypothetical to pretend it's not really important to us.
A clear data point against your claim is to look at Syria and Turkey. Trump was criticized for cutting and running and not defending our ally, which damaged our political position in the region. A criticism for NOT taking military action.
Another example:
Was Trump criticized for increasing the magnitude by almost a factor of four between 2016 and 2018?
Nope.
Reality doesn't support your conjecture.
Actually, it does support it.
You say that, but in no way justify that claim...
I just pointed out a specific example that was directly parallel to this one. Trump escalating military attacks four times what they were under Obama, but no liberal complaints.
So how does that justify it?
Because any fair reading of my post would not limit the larger point only to actions taken.
Gosh, if anyone would have appreciated the full spectrum of potential gainsaying I would have bet good money it would have been you.
Once again, you take things out of context and move the goalposts at a whim.

In my first post above, I was pointing out how reality does not support your claim.
You replied by saying "Actually, it does support it."
I point out the examples I provided, taken from "reality", actually contradict your claim.

You then reply with "Because any fair reading of my post would not limit the larger point only to actions taken.", which clearly demonstrates that you do not want to rely solely on what is (what actions were actually taken) and go beyond that. Go beyond reality and rely on your IMAGINATION regarding what people would do in hypothetical situations as an argument.

So which is it?
Do you want your arguments to rely on your imagination and ignore the reality which contradicts your imagination?
Or do you want to deal in reality, in which case you need to explain your statement of how my real life examples support your claim?
 
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Sure, Soleimani was a terrorist, particularly in the eyes of the US and West in general. But, he also was a top Iran general. And most certainly, being rather fiercely nationalistic, even ordinary Iranians who didn't care for Suleiman regarding crackdowns by the government on the people that he supported could forget those crackdowns in an instant when they see their country-by extension of that military leader being killed-being attacked. And, average Iranians are likely rather happy that Iran itself hasn't been attacked...just yet. But if the US decides to bomb their oil industry, ordinary Iranians will most certainly view that as an even greater attack on Iran than the assassination of Soleimani.

Furthermore, what is there to prevent other countries from dealing with Iran, particularly since the US simply doesn't have broad international support even for the current sanctions on Iran? Is the US going to bomb them too? Or blockade their ships from getting through to Iran? Thus, American power boastfulness, in reality, only goes so far.

Finally, it is entirely incorrect to view Iran as if it was the equivalent of a North Korea of the Middle East. The truth is, the Iranian government simply isn't as authoritarian as many people in the US seem to exaggerate it to be. And, while at times some-or even many-Iranians rise up over certain rights or liberties being trampled on by the Iranian government, the Iranian government-particularly the hardliners-has been quite clever in knowing just how far they can go without there being long-term and significantly widespread desire amongst the public to actually topple the regime. (And heck, they might not even want to topple their parliament since they are voted in by the people.)

So, to me it appears that your conclusions at the tail end of your paragraph above just aren't that well-based upon reality.
Actually, Soleimani was a terrorist to far more than the west...sadly though, the news isn't reporting all the people who are extremely happy that he's dead. Even in Iraq they had people running through the streets cheering. I get it, you don't want to realize how bad he was and how hated he was because it doesn't fit your narrative...too bad.

We have economic sanctions on Iran and anyone who "deals" with them will essentially be met with losing commerce with us as well and I'm not sure if you realize this or not, but everyone wants our products and wares. So yeah, anyone can trade with Iran but it would cost them dearly as well so most don't take that chance.

Iran was one of the most amazing nations I've ever visited back in 1977. The people were amazing, the place was breathtaking, and the food was wonderful. Sadly a couple years later, all that changed as soon as the current "supreme leader" took over and imposed some very backwards policies. Telling me they aren't authoritarian is like me telling you that superman is real...it's pure BS. If you'd like to better understand it, please, feel free to travel there yourself. Iranians in general are amazing and warm loving people...their government isn't. Don't tell me they are not authoritarian because you have no clue what you're talking about....CLEARLY! I lost several of my good friends because they made the fatal error of speaking against their leadership to the wrong people. I am so tired of ignorant people living in bubbles thinking they know how the world is because some delusional media source says all is well.

I have never and will never consider Iran like NK and I'm not sure where you go that impression. as for voting their leaders in...well...you believe Trump is evil because democrats convinced you to hate him...they convinced you to hate anything he does. They mock Trump and call into question anyone who thinks Trump is doing well as stupid furthering this idea that trump is bad. Everything you feel about our president is programmed in by the very party you think is good. That's exactly what Iranian politicians have done but the problem is...vermin like soleimani stay in their position of authority while elected officials come and go because they are behind the scenes and the one pulling the strings and devising the plans to create chaos. Your impression of them being smart and only taking it SO far is true...but if they are real muslims, they should be looking for peace and not chaos but that's exactly what they strive for...chaos.
 
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Your logic is seriously flawed. YES--Both men were deadly enemies of the United States and likely targets. Both were responsible for attacks on Americans throughout the world. Both were killed in foreign lands without the approval of the local authorities — bin Laden in Pakistan and Soleimani in Iraq. But that's where the similarities end.
Bin Laden's death was a damaging blow to Al Qaeda, a small stateless terrorist group with which the United States was formally at war — duly authorized by Congress. It was an act carefully deliberated over many months that would not conceivably trigger a broader conflict. In contrast, killing Soleimani was a direct attack on a hostile nation state, but one with which we are not yet at war.
It was initiated by what appears to have been a presidential impulse, without consultation or approval of Congress or OUR allies. It was certain to prompt immediate retaliation and, quite possibly, war. It was precisely the kind of act feared by those who have opposed the concentration of war-making powers on the president alone, hence the *War Resolution currently being voted on.
Finding Bin Laden was YEARS in the making. Why? Because HE was behind the 9/11 attacks on this country and Osama bin Laden was also involved PRIOR to 9/11 in the USS Cole bombing and the 1998 United States embassy bombings in East Africa.

*The War Powers Resolution is a federal law intended to check the U.S. president's power to commit the United States to an armed conflict without the consent of the U.S. Congress.
1. congress already has the power to determine if we go to war or not.
2. the dems are trying to pass the war powers as a political stunt to further tap into ignorance dems who are feeble minded and easily influenced.
3. there is a separation in our government and the whole war powers resolution means absolutely nothing. It's literally a political stunt that the president can veto or pass his own resolution to dissolve. or did you forget how Obama wrote his own laws into effect without even bothering to go to the GOP led congress at the time? Obama passed several resolutions that were at best in the gray area of legality and he opened the door for those after him.
4. how is my logic flawed? stop claiming something without providing answers. I think you're an idiot...but unless I substantiate it...i'm just making false claims.
5. Al Qaeda wasn't stateless. They were a political group that had spread throughout the middle east. Even now, former members moved onto ISIS, the Iran funded Hezbollah, or any number of other groups. They are a fringe group that literally was everywhere in the middle east and Egypt. Now they have broken apart but then, they were far more powerful than you give them credit.
6. Soleimani was listed as a TERRORIST BY OBAMA HIMSELF AND OTHER DEMOCRATS!!!!! look it up. I'll wait.
7. Soleimani was responsible for countless attacks on Americans and our interests, responsible for the deaths of over 600 of our brothers and sisters, created and funded several terrorist groups and deployed them on attacks against the US like the embassy attacks and THAT is why Obama and other democrats listed him as a terrorist many years ago!!!!!!!!!!!! Trump just had an opportunity to get him when he travelled to Iraq since we have a presence there and didn't have to invade another countries sovereign land to kill him.

When you stop and use your brain, you'll see that Trump did a VERY good thing that Obama started
and couldn't finish. I get it, you would rather let others do your thinking for you which is why none of that was known to you and why you incorrectly think the way you do. It's ok...we're all ignorant until we educate ourselves...so please educate yourself.
 
Dec 2018
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2. the dems are trying to pass the war powers as a political stunt to further tap into ignorance dems who are feeble minded and easily influenced.
Trump and the boot licking minions in his administration know little of the Constitution. It's obvious Pompeo and Trump are trying to pull the wool over Congress's eyes.

Note the cracks forming within the Republican ranks...Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) on the lousiest WH briefing ever:

They're appearing before a co-equal branch of government responsible for their funding, for their confirmation, for any approval of any military action they might undertake. They had to leave after 75 minutes, while they were in the process of telling us that we need to be good little boys and girls and run along and not debate this in public. I find that absolutely insane. I think it's unacceptable. ...

 
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Dec 2018
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Once again, you take things out of context and move the goalposts at a whim.

In my first post above, I was pointing out how reality does not support your claim.
You replied by saying "Actually, it does support it."
I point out the examples I provided, taken from "reality", actually contradict your claim.

You then reply with "Because any fair reading of my post would not limit the larger point only to actions taken.", which clearly demonstrates that you do not want to rely solely on what is (what actions were actually taken) and go beyond that. Go beyond reality and rely on your IMAGINATION regarding what people would do in hypothetical situations as an argument.

So which is it?
Do you want your arguments to rely on your imagination and ignore the reality which contradicts your imagination?
Or do you want to deal in reality, in which case you need to explain your statement of how my real life examples support your claim?
I think the reality is that Trump hate runs so deep the left will oppose whatever he does, whether it’s a sound action or not. If you cannot grasp what I mean by that then we’re out of luck as I’m not sure I can explain it more simply for you.
 
Dec 2018
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I think the reality is that Trump hate runs so deep the left will oppose whatever he does, whether it’s a sound action or not. If you cannot grasp what I mean by that then we’re out of luck as I’m not sure I can explain it more simply for you.
Hatred for Trump isn't confined to just the left. Europeans, Middle Easterners, South Americans and Asians hate him. Republicans hate him as well, but they can't admit it right now because they'll be punished by the most vindictive President since either Nixon or LBJ . Come to think of it, most of the human race hates Trump.

He's brought it on himself.
 
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Dec 2018
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New England
Hatred for Trump isn't confined to just the left. Europeans, Middle Easterners, South Americans and Asians hate him. Republicans hate him as well, but they can't admit it right now because they'll be punished by the most vindictive President since either Nixon or LBJ . Come to think of it, most of the human race hates Trump.

He's brought it on himself.
We’re not debating Trump’s likability here. The question is to what degree Trump-hate is dictating the policy positions taken by the left?
 
Dec 2018
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We’re not debating Trump’s likability here. The question is to what degree Trump-hate is dictating the policy positions taken by the left?
Probably very little, if anyone cares. Trump's policies are the same old detested GOP boilerplate that Democrats have opposed for over 20 years. The question is are we any safer now than we were 10 days ago? I doubt it.
 
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May 2018
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1. congress already has the power to determine if we go to war or not.
2. the dems are trying to pass the war powers as a political stunt to further tap into ignorance dems who are feeble minded and easily influenced.
3. there is a separation in our government and the whole war powers resolution means absolutely nothing. It's literally a political stunt that the president can veto or pass his own resolution to dissolve. or did you forget how Obama wrote his own laws into effect without even bothering to go to the GOP led congress at the time? Obama passed several resolutions that were at best in the gray area of legality and he opened the door for those after him.
4. how is my logic flawed? stop claiming something without providing answers. I think you're an idiot...but unless I substantiate it...i'm just making false claims.
5. Al Qaeda wasn't stateless. They were a political group that had spread throughout the middle east. Even now, former members moved onto ISIS, the Iran funded Hezbollah, or any number of other groups. They are a fringe group that literally was everywhere in the middle east and Egypt. Now they have broken apart but then, they were far more powerful than you give them credit.
6. Soleimani was listed as a TERRORIST BY OBAMA HIMSELF AND OTHER DEMOCRATS!!!!! look it up. I'll wait.
7. Soleimani was responsible for countless attacks on Americans and our interests, responsible for the deaths of over 600 of our brothers and sisters, created and funded several terrorist groups and deployed them on attacks against the US like the embassy attacks and THAT is why Obama and other democrats listed him as a terrorist many years ago!!!!!!!!!!!! Trump just had an opportunity to get him when he travelled to Iraq since we have a presence there and didn't have to invade another countries sovereign land to kill him.

When you stop and use your brain, you'll see that Trump did a VERY good thing that Obama started
and couldn't finish. I get it, you would rather let others do your thinking for you which is why none of that was known to you and why you incorrectly think the way you do. It's ok...we're all ignorant until we educate ourselves...so please educate yourself.
Don't tell us to look things up. If you make a claim, you look it up and post a link. It's not up to us to do your homework.

Lastly, there are a lot of intelligent posters on here who use their brains constantly. Just because you to not agree with them, does not mean they aren't.
 
Nov 2005
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I think the reality is that Trump hate runs so deep the left will oppose whatever he does, whether it’s a sound action or not.
Repeating myself again, I just proved that is not the case with multiple examples.

An example of Democrats not opposing him ramping up attacks.

An example of liberals AGREEING with Trump

Another example of liberals AGREEING with Trump.


If you cannot grasp what I mean by that then we’re out of luck as I’m not sure I can explain it more simply for you.
Again, you confuse DISAGREEMENT with *not getting* your position.
I don't understand how a rational person could make that mistake so often, even when it is repeatedly pointed out. Even worse for you, you never address how I could be wrong when I point out it is not about *not getting* your position but rather *I am proving your position wrong*.

I understand your statement. I am proving your statement wrong.
If you cannot grasp the difference between the two, then we're out of luck as I'm not sure how I can explain it more simply for you.
I think the true problem is that reality is irrelevant to your position. If you believed the sun rose in the west, it would not matter how much evidence showed you wrong you would still turn around and pretend somebody "cannot grasp" what you are saying.
 
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