Fellow Liberatarians, Take Heart! This Could Be Our Chance!

Feb 2020
1,748
643
Houston
Obviously, this is a horrible time for the cause of freedom.

Honestly, I was moments away last night from posting that I am giving up. Can't beat, 'em, Join 'em.

I was searching for a pic of a guy in a "Taxation is Theft" t-shirt holding a white flag to use as an icon.

Donkeys and Elephants will understand perhaps a third of what comes next, so reading it might be a waste of time for them. Just sayin' . . .

The Twoparties are finally showing their true colors.

They have seized on this absurd pseudo-crises to fulfill their darkest desires.

Each of the supposed opposing parties have completely abandoned the values they claimed to hold most dear.

The U.S. will surely have its credit rating downgraded again, something unknown except under Obama.

With borrowing limited, they will turn to printing, perhaps setting off a Weimar level inflation.

Freedoms taken from us during this hysteria will only grudgingly and gradually be doled back to us, if at all. Crime will be rampant, poverty overwhelming, taxes hiked to the limit of people's ability to bear them.

Vote for a freedom lover in the LP primary. If another socialist again wins the primary, vote for them anyway to build the party. Then, start working right away toward 2024. Concentrate on local elections no matter how obscure, but especially state legislatures.

If this doesn't turn the people against their overlords in the Republicrat Twoparties, nothing will.
 
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Nov 2005
10,132
5,503
California
I have the exact opposite perspective. The current status with focus on the coronavirus makes a true libertarian candidate an absolute no-go...

First question: What would a libertarian government leader do to combat the coronavirus?
There is no libertarian answer I can think of which would be viable for the American voters.
 
Jul 2014
16,479
10,868
massachusetts
Clearly you don't have a clue.
anyone who uses the term "pseudo-crisis" to refer to corona virus qualifies as a "complete fucking moron".
The only way our credit gets downgraded is when the GOP controls enough of the government to orchestrate a default.
Hopefully that situation is remedied in November.
What we are going to see is the economy collapse, something that invariably happens following any period where the GOP controls the White House and the Congress. It happened in 1930, it happened in 2008, it's happening now.
It's a reminder to people that GOP policy doesn't work.
By November they will be reminded of that, over and over again.

Every Democrat should be running an ad featuring Trump saying "It's just one person, we have it completely under control"
 
Sep 2019
2,487
2,804
Louisville, Ky
I have the exact opposite perspective. The current status with focus on the coronavirus makes a true libertarian candidate an absolute no-go...

First question: What would a libertarian government leader do to combat the coronavirus?
There is no libertarian answer I can think of which would be viable for the American voters.
Just look to Rand Paul as your example......freakin' Girly prick.
 
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Feb 2020
1,748
643
Houston
I have the exact opposite perspective. The current status with focus on the coronavirus makes a true libertarian candidate an absolute no-go...

First question: What would a libertarian government leader do to combat the coronavirus?


There is no libertarian answer I can think of which would be viable for the American voters.

Probably recommend many of the precautions being taken now.

Recommend.

That would go a long way toward not crashing the economy and ruining people financially.

People would know the risks of going into work versus the risk of not going into work.

More people would get the virus than under this enforced and subsidized shutdown.

Just like more people would get the flu, more people would pass on the AIDS virus, many more people would die in car crashes, etc.

If not for government over-regulations, the free market would be building more hospital space right now. If not for the AMA's strangle hold on American medicine through its lobbying, we would have many, many more physicians and healers than we have now.

Under the free market, when something is expensive, producers produce more of it. So we would have plenty of medical staff available for something like this. We wouldn't have to have a lockdown to avoid a peak demand crashing a system that had been artificially limited by government control.

At this moment, you are correct. The voters will not accept it.

Once they see the wreckage this causes, that will be another story.
 
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Jul 2014
16,479
10,868
massachusetts
There is no libertarian answer I can think of which would be viable for the American voters.

Probably recommend many of the precautions being taken now.

Recommend.

That would go a long way toward not crashing the economy and ruining people financially.

People would know the risks of going into work versus the risk of not going into work.

More people would get the virus than under this enforced and subsidized shutdown.

Just like more people would get the flu, more people would pass on the AIDS virus, many more people would die in car crashes, etc.

If not for government over-regulations, the free market would be building more hospital space right now. If not for the AMA's strangle hold on American medicine through its lobbying, we would have many, many more physicians and healers than we have now.

Under the free market, when something is expensive, producers produce more of it. So we would have plenty of medical staff available for something like this. We wouldn't have to have a lockdown to avoid a peak demand crashing a system that had been artificially limited by government control.

At this moment, you are correct. The voters will not accept it.

Once they see the wreckage this causes, that will be another story.
Maybe you should look into economics...
It's the nature of the market place to abhor "excess" capacity.
The market is all about consolidating hospitals, to encourage "higher utilization rates", less excess capacity.
In the event of a crisis, the market responds by making more coffins. Because it's already reduced surge capacity, that's the nature of the market.
 
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Nov 2005
10,132
5,503
California
There is no libertarian answer I can think of which would be viable for the American voters.
Probably recommend many of the precautions being taken now.

Recommend.
That would go a long way toward not crashing the economy and ruining people financially.
People would know the risks of going into work versus the risk of not going into work.
More people would get the virus than under this enforced and subsidized shutdown.
Just like more people would get the flu, more people would pass on the AIDS virus, many more people would die in car crashes, etc.
I think this is the part you just plain don't get about the situation...

Our main enemy in all this is CAPACITY.
Capacity in hospital beds. Capacity in medical equipment. Capacity in supplies.
Even at this stage, capacity in TESTING for the coronavirus to understand how has it / who does not.

With airlines, they oversell seats with the expectation that a certain amount will not show up. If they guess wrong and have to turn some away, they do that.
We're running into a similar projection regarding the coronavirus.

Our # of hospital beds per capita is on the low end of the spectrum.
Our # of ICU hospital beds per capita is second from last, beat only by Turkey.
We're trying to LESSEN the transmission rate in order to better keep more people alive.

100 people competing for 33 hospital beds in one month => more dead people than if you have 100 people using 33 hospital beds over two or three months.


If not for government over-regulations, the free market would be building more hospital space right now. If not for the AMA's strangle hold on American medicine through its lobbying, we would have many, many more physicians and healers than we have now.
One commonality with extreme libertarians is a failure to see various shortcomings of capitalism and too little recognition of reality.
WHO would be building hospital space right now?
With what money? I expect you're not talking about the government's money.

Think of the long-term investment recognition. The coronavirus will inevitably have a vaccine / better way of treatment in which case those extra hospital beds are dead weight.
So it's a pretty crappy investment idea, isn't it.

And our "free market" has already put into place a situation where we have a ridiculously large number of people filing for bankruptcy ALREADY due to medical expenses.
Throw in a coronavirus with more people not having medical coverage...
Surely they are not the ones you are thinking will be paying (or long-term recompensating) these "investments"?


Under the free market, when something is expensive, producers produce more of it. So we would have plenty of medical staff available for something like this. We wouldn't have to have a lockdown to avoid a peak demand crashing a system that had been artificially limited by government control.
How long does it take to build more hospital space?

China did, but WHOSE MONEY were they using?
The quicker you want something built, the more money it takes.
Supply / Demand curves typically lag each other.


At this moment, you are correct. The voters will not accept it.
Once they see the wreckage this causes, that will be another story.
Another part of your problem is you fail to recognize how much of what wreckage belongs to the existence of the coronavirus.
There was always going to be wreckage. And where you fail to appreciate the situation is that the U.S. is MORE capitalist than other countries that are coping better than us with the coronavirus.

There is realistically incredibly little from the "free market" building more hospital spaces right now. You can make all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day they are just excuses that nobody can recognize any tangible improvements from your advice.
It's a pipe dream. Nothing more.
 
Mar 2020
1,429
371
Land of Freedom
How about this flops, create a libertarian only thread and agree to ignore all posts by people who want to derail it. Libertarians have a lot of things to talk about without the interruptions.
 
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