Georgia still hasn’t managed to rename Runaway Negro Creek

May 2018
3,662
2,670
USA
#56
Makes as much sense as the name now.

No, I won't read the agitprop about what "heroes" the traitors were. The Confederate generals/officers were straight up traitors, favoring the money they made off slavery over any loyalty to the USA. Best case for enlisted Confederate Soldiers is they were ignorant peasants, otherwise they were straight up traitors. I'm sure a significant % of them were profoundly racist as well.
 
Likes: FrostKing
Sep 2017
2,142
1,094
Hell
#58
Wrong. The Romans had black slaves well before Portugal was even a country. With your avatar you should know better!
Different type of slavery and different time frame; there was no Roman Republic or Empire when the wave of trans-Atlantic slave trade that we are discussing began. Slavery was not a racial institution for the Romans and they did not practice chattel slavery. They had no notions of race that later developed in Europe and the Americas from the 15th century until now. Prior to mid/late 20th century, slaves in ancient Rome arguably had more rights and were treated better than Blacks in America.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Sep 2017
2,142
1,094
Hell
#59
Makes as much sense as the name now.

No, I won't read the agitprop about what "heroes" the traitors were. The Confederate generals/officers were straight up traitors, favoring the money they made off slavery over any loyalty to the USA. Best case for enlisted Confederate Soldiers is they were ignorant peasants, otherwise they were straight up traitors. I'm sure a significant % of them were profoundly racist as well.
Then you are ignorant of the way Americans thought about loyalty to State. When Robert E. Lee was offered the command of the Union Army, he reply was that his first loyalty was to his country (meaning Virginia). Many if not most people didn't see the US as one nation, but as an alliance of independent and sovereign States. The US Army had to change it's officers' oath in 1862 to reflect that, changing the Unites States - a plurality, to The United States of America - a singular entity. Even the US Army did not considered them to have broken their oaths, but recognized that the oath had to be reworded.

The U.S. Constitution would have never been ratified — and a union never created — if the people of those 13 "free sovereign and Independent States" did not believe that they had the right to secede. Even on the eve of the War of 1861, unionist politicians saw secession as a right that states had. Rep. Jacob M. Kunkel of Maryland said, "Any attempt to preserve the union between the states of this Confederacy by force would be impractical and destructive of republican liberty." The Northern Democratic and Republican parties favored allowing the South to secede in peace.

You really ought to read up on Confederate Generals before blowing cheese. Civil War is clearly beyond your depth, so I will give you just a few examples from the most well known Confederate Generals:

Robert E. Lee and his wife freed their slaves. Lee's father-in-law owned large number of slaves, but when Lee became the executor of his father-in-law's estate upon his death, he manumitted all of them. Lee and his wife were members of the American Colonization Society, a group that helped to free slaves and offered help to emigrate them back to Africa if that was what they wanted.

Stonewall Jackson did not own slaves and was a hero of the African American community in Lexington because when he was an instructor at VMI, he broke Virginia law every Sunday by teaching Blacks to read and write.

George Pickett (of the infamous Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg) was vehemently anti-slavery and moved to Illinois to get away from it all. But when Virginia "called", he went home to serve her.

BTW, John S. McCain III hailed from a family that had the distinction of having at least one member that fought in every war since the French Indian War. He was the first to end an unbroken line of Generals and Admirals. The McCain's started out in Virginia and then moved to Mississippi. Guess who they fought for during the ACW.

Calling people traitors is easy if you did not live in their times and walked in their shoes. Remember this, George Washington and all those that fought alongside him were and still are seen as traitors from a UK perspective, yet we call them our founders. The one that the UK treated as a hero, calling him a Loyalist and giving him land and money is whom we consider a traitor and his very name is s synonymous with the word "traitor" in America, His name was Benedict Arnold.
 
Likes: roastpork
Nov 2012
40,609
11,700
Lebanon, TN
#60
Wrong. The Romans had black slaves well before Portugal was even a country. With your avatar you should know better!
Egypt had whites as slaves long before Rome was a city much less an empire.

The reason I don't want it changed "Runnaway Negro Creek" reminds me of slavery, no question about the historical context.

And I am a great great Grandson of a Negro Slave ...

parts of our history is ugly, parts of our history is great.. and we need to memorialize the Ugly just as much as the Great parts of our history.

Wounded Knee needs to be remembered...

Jim Crowe should be remembered..

The Emancipation of my ancestors should be remembered.....

Because we want to REPEAT the Great moments in our.history.

and Rememeber so we DON'T repeat the ugly moments in our history

both need to be remembered
 
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Likes: roastpork

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