Google tracked his bike ride past a burglarized home. That made him a suspect.

Feb 2020
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Mickey objects to this comparison.
The trains in the Magic Kingdom are real and they do run on time!
Of course, there was nothing of substance because the "Tarians" are a mishmash of high principles and pure nuttiness. These folks are "misunderstood", "mischaracterized", and dissatisfied with traditional party policies, but when you ask specific questions you'll get a dismissal with the following codicil: “ we support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology.”
To hell with D.C.
Let's self-govern because we're such honest, decent, law-abiding citizens in all things, while waving the flag of free-market everything. God bless us everyone.
Like I said: Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom.
At least you read it, Clara. I'll give you that.

You realize that the opposite of "Let's self-govern because we're such honest, decent, law-abiding citizens in all things," is "We must be governed by force because we're such dishonest, indecent, criminals in all things?"
 
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Nov 2005
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At least you read it, Clara. I'll give you that.
If ever there is a generic "this is what libertarians think about life in general" thread, I'm sure it'll be relevant there.



You realize that the opposite of "Let's self-govern because we're such honest, decent, law-abiding citizens in all things," is "We must be governed by force because we're such dishonest, indecent, criminals in all things?"
Such binary thinking. Very common with libertarians that can't recognize problems that exist between the two extremes.
But again, such a discourse is relevant for a general discussion on libertarians.

As with many things libertarian, you aren't providing any information on what viable plan libertarians would implement to deal with the discussed situation.
As I pointed out, the web-site you pointed to does not even really address it in the first place.

Unless, of course, the "viable plan" you would endorse simply involves scrapping the whole current mess and just "Magic Kingdom" thinking regarding what is put into place to replace it?
 
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Feb 2020
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Houston
Mickey objects to this comparison.
The trains in the Magic Kingdom are real and they do run on time!
If ever there is a generic "this is what libertarians think about life in general" thread, I'm sure it'll be relevant there.




Such binary thinking. Very common with libertarians that can't recognize problems that exist between the two extremes.
But again, such a discourse is relevant for a general discussion on libertarians.

As with many things libertarian, you aren't providing any information on what viable plan libertarians would implement to deal with the discussed situation.
As I pointed out, the web-site you pointed to does not even really address it in the first place.

Unless, of course, the "viable plan" you would endorse simply involves scrapping the whole current mess and just "Magic Kingdom" thinking regarding what is put into place to replace it?
The viable plan for stopping that kind of intrusive government is to stop that kind of intrusive government. Virtual fence warrants or whatever they are called just need to be ended. We don't need another plan to replace them.

I thought about posting a lengthy explanation of libertarianism, but I doubt anyone would read it. They just hit "post reply" and answer "that's stoooopid" or whatever.

Libertarians would not stop google from gathering information, that's their business model that enables them to provide lots of services at no charge to the consumer.Libertarians would want to forbid government (imagine that) from getting the information to spy on citizens.
 
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At least you read it, Clara. I'll give you that.

You realize that the opposite of "Let's self-govern because we're such honest, decent, law-abiding citizens in all things," is "We must be governed by force because we're such dishonest, indecent, criminals in all things?"
You bet I realize that. Am I the only one?
 
Dec 2015
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The viable plan for stopping that kind of intrusive government is to stop that kind of intrusive government. Virtual fence warrants or whatever they are called just need to be ended. We don't need another plan to replace them.

I thought about posting a lengthy explanation of libertarianism, but I doubt anyone would read it. They just hit "post reply" and answer "that's stoooopid" or whatever.

Libertarians would not stop google from gathering information, that's their business model that enables them to provide lots of services at no charge to the consumer. Libertarians would want to forbid government (imagine that) from getting the information to spy on citizens.
Please tell us this. If Libertarianism is such an awesome, brilliant idea.......why are there NO Libertarian countries?
Anywhere in the world.
There are 193 sovereign state members of the United Nations—195--- if you count the Vatican and Palestine, which have been granted observer status by the world organization. If libertarianism was a good idea, wouldn’t at least one country have tried it? Wouldn’t there be at least one country, out of nearly two hundred, with minimal government, free trade, open borders, decriminalized drugs, no welfare state and no public education system?
Libertarian theorists have the luxury of mixing and matching policies to create an imaginary utopia. A real country must function simultaneously in different realms—defense and the economy, law enforcement and some kind of system of support for the poor. Being able to point to even one truly libertarian country would provide at least some evidence that libertarianism can work in the real world.
If socialism is discredited by the failure of communist regimes in the real world, why isn’t libertarianism discredited by the absence of any libertarian regimes in the real world? Communism was tried and failed. Libertarianism has never even been tried on the scale of a modern nation-state, even a small one, anywhere in the world.
AND BTW, the internet is chocked full of information like this but of course you'd rather believe in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.

 
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Nov 2005
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The viable plan for stopping that kind of intrusive government is to stop that kind of intrusive government. Virtual fence warrants or whatever they are called just need to be ended. We don't need another plan to replace them.
This approach is throwing out the baby with the bath-water. A virtual fence warrant has realistic applications and justifiable situations for an actual warrant, but this was not one of them.

The available information should have ruled out the person involved as he was just traveling by (presumably ~ 12 MPH or so) which any rational person looking at the data would recognize as not matching the "profile" of another hypothetical person who would have been inside the house for an extended period of time.
If this had been a "visual siting" request warrant:
a) John saw Allen riding his bike by the robbed house and not stopping. No judge would issue a warrant for Allen.
b) John also saw Carl inside the house for 30 minutes and then leave the house, with the timing coinciding the robbery time window. A judge WOULD issue a warrant (or at least agree there is probable cause for questioning Carl) based on this eye-witness account.

The problem is not the government having ANY access to company recorded information. Even today, if John were a milkman who made those notes in his corporate notebook, such information would easily be reasonable to discuss with the police. It's not the information (or the government acquiring ANY of it) which is the problem.


Libertarians would not stop google from gathering information, that's their business model that enables them to provide lots of services at no charge to the consumer.Libertarians would want to forbid government (imagine that) from getting the information to spy on citizens.
That's an unreasonable over-reaction to the situation.
 
Nov 2005
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Please tell us this. If Libertarianism is such an awesome, brilliant idea.......why are there NO Libertarian countries?
Anywhere in the world.
There are 193 sovereign state members of the United Nations—195--- if you count the Vatican and Palestine, which have been granted observer status by the world organization. If libertarianism was a good idea, wouldn’t at least one country have tried it? Wouldn’t there be at least one country, out of nearly two hundred, with minimal government, free trade, open borders, decriminalized drugs, no welfare state and no public education system?
Libertarian theorists have the luxury of mixing and matching policies to create an imaginary utopia. A real country must function simultaneously in different realms—defense and the economy, law enforcement and some kind of system of support for the poor. Being able to point to even one truly libertarian country would provide at least some evidence that libertarianism can work in the real world.
If socialism is discredited by the failure of communist regimes in the real world, why isn’t libertarianism discredited by the absence of any libertarian regimes in the real world? Communism was tried and failed. Libertarianism has never even been tried on the scale of a modern nation-state, even a small one, anywhere in the world.
AND BTW, the internet is chocked full of information like this but of course you'd rather believe in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.

Thank you for the article.
It sums up a LOT regarding various deficiencies regarding some libertarian arguments.
e.g. if privately owned / maintained roads are so great, why don't companies simply implement them successfully today?
 
Feb 2020
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Please tell us this. If Libertarianism is such an awesome, brilliant idea.......why are there NO Libertarian countries?
Anywhere in the world.
There are 193 sovereign state members of the United Nations—195--- if you count the Vatican and Palestine, which have been granted observer status by the world organization. If libertarianism was a good idea, wouldn’t at least one country have tried it? Wouldn’t there be at least one country, out of nearly two hundred, with minimal government, free trade, open borders, decriminalized drugs, no welfare state and no public education system?
Libertarian theorists have the luxury of mixing and matching policies to create an imaginary utopia. A real country must function simultaneously in different realms—defense and the economy, law enforcement and some kind of system of support for the poor. Being able to point to even one truly libertarian country would provide at least some evidence that libertarianism can work in the real world.
If socialism is discredited by the failure of communist regimes in the real world, why isn’t libertarianism discredited by the absence of any libertarian regimes in the real world? Communism was tried and failed. Libertarianism has never even been tried on the scale of a modern nation-state, even a small one, anywhere in the world.
That's why you can't say it is discredited.

It hasn't been tried, and probably never will be tried because government is too good a racket to pass up. "You've got a nice little place here. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it," will always be a successful sales pitch.

Also, on my previous forum which was supposed to be for libertarians, I started to wonder whether libertarianism will never happen because it goes against human nature. For every human with a strong desire to control others, there are nine with a desire to be led.

That was probably the best ratio for our tribal ancestors or there would have been literally "too many chiefs." For that one out of a hundred oddball that saw no pleasure in controlling others, nor benefit to being controlled, they could easily strike out on their own and be left alone.

The only way such people could ever achieve a society that would leave them alone would be to band together which goes against their nature.

But I'll keep advocating for more freedom just like the Greenies, the New Reformers, the commies who haven't simply turned over their whole agenda to the Democrats advocate for what they want.
 
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