Has politics replaced religion?

Jul 2008
18,530
12,258
Virginia Beach, VA
Problem is, Dawkins never gave a number for that improbability, did he?

So now that we are talking about probability, what is the probability that a living cell could come to life out of inorganic matter?
He never gave a number BECAUSE IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!

Believing/disbelieving in a god has nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with probabilities or possibilities.

It is about evidence. Period. End of Discussion.

How improbable it would be for a living cell to arise out of inorganic matter doesn’t matter. We KNOW that it happened because we are here. We don’t know how it happened. But because we don’t know how doesn’t make the answer “God did it”
 
Feb 2019
1,417
317
here and there
Science has two major obstacles to explain. How a living cell came about and then replicated into what we have now, but also where did matter come from in the first place?

So not only do you have the odds of a living cell coming about via abiogenesis, you also have the odds of how the Big Bang could make a universe that could support such life.

Fine-tuning of the Universe
 
Feb 2019
1,417
317
here and there
He never gave a number BECAUSE IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!

Believing/disbelieving in a god has nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with probabilities or possibilities.

It is about evidence. Period. End of Discussion.

How improbable it would be for a living cell to arise out of inorganic matter doesn’t matter. We KNOW that it happened because we are here. We don’t know how it happened. But because we don’t know how doesn’t make the answer “God did it”
Probability is evidence.

If not, why look at probability?

Some people in Vegas make a living at it.
 
Jul 2008
18,530
12,258
Virginia Beach, VA
Science has two major obstacles to explain. How a living cell came about and then replicated into what we have now, but also where did matter come from in the first place?

So not only do you have the odds of a living cell coming about via abiogenesis, you also have the odds of how the Big Bang could make a universe that could support such life.

Fine-tuning of the Universe
The fine tuning argument is worthless.

An intelligent puddle occupies a pothole. The puddle thinks that I fit this pothole perfectly. This pothole must have been designed for me. The pothole wasn’t designed for the puddle. The puddle exists in that specific condition because it conformed to the pothole.

We don’t exist in a universe that was designed for us. We evolved into what we are because of the local (and universal) conditions
 
Jul 2008
18,530
12,258
Virginia Beach, VA
Probability is evidence.

If not, why look at probability?

Some people in Vegas make a living at it.
No, probability is NOT evidence.

But even if it were no one can calculate the probabilities of God, life or the universe since we cannot know all of the factors involved.

Odds makers in Vegas calculate probabilities by studying the factors. If you can’t know the factors you cannot calculate the probabilities.
 
Sep 2015
13,965
5,037
Brown Township, Ohio
Are you sure? What exactly have you proven that you believe in?

I think you will find that proof is found mainly in a math class. Outside of that, we tend to rely on evidence that seems plausible.

But that is not a bad thing, if we demanded proof for everything, we could not function in the world. Our worldviews, or belief system, is the matrix through which we make sense of what we think is the reality around us. Through this worldview or belief system, we not only categorize what we think are "facts", we assign those facts value. Then we make decisions accordingly.
Proven is not a real word but proved is. Quod erat demonstrandum.
 
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Nov 2012
2,743
1,680
Rhondda
Hitler got a bad wrap. In fact, every evil that was inflicted upon the Jewish people had been done before Nazi Germany. That means the interment camps, the ghettos the mass killings of Jews, having to wear the Star of David, the expulsion of Jews from entire countries, all of this occurred well before the Nazi era. In fact, you might call the Holocaust the natural progression of anti-Semitism in Western Europe.

Am a an anarchist? No, anarchy only leads to despotism. The problem is, all forms of government seem to lead to despotism, but anarchy simply gets you there faster.

No, I believe in government that is limited as humanly possible. The problem lies in the immorality of society Only a moral people can be a free people, otherwise, the state must impose civility on the population in order to maintain civility.

So the key is the moral state of society in defending individual freedom. If you can't monitor yourself in terms of your own morality, the state will be forced to do it for you

But this is what the Left wants, they want full government control over pretty much everything. Their idea to save man from himself is to pass laws, regulations, taxes, etc. Problem is, with each law freedom wanes.

It's like I always joke about, the ideal Left wing utopia is a prison cell. It is a gun free zone, all your meals are free, your room and board is free, even medical care is free. The greatest part of all is, every day is gay pride day.
Bits of the Nazi programme had come up before, with long gaps in between, but only the nazis believed in the fantasy of a Jewish 'race' and had the phoney science of eugenics to call on when they used archaic crap to save capitalism. Real socialists, by the way, don't believe in the state, which is always the central committee of the boss class. Working people, being the vast majority, and not living by thieving and bullying, won't need it. As with Christianity a great number of crooks and confused people use the label, unfortunately
 
Feb 2019
1,417
317
here and there
Bits of the Nazi programme had come up before, with long gaps in between, but only the nazis believed in the fantasy of a Jewish 'race' and had the phoney science of eugenics to call on when they used archaic crap to save capitalism. Real socialists, by the way, don't believe in the state, which is always the central committee of the boss class. Working people, being the vast majority, and not living by thieving and bullying, won't need it. As with Christianity a great number of crooks and confused people use the label, unfortunately
People won't need the state? Give man example.

From a Christian perspective, we all are sheep. That means we all cling to a shepherd.

This is why atheists tend to be left wing, they have adopted a shepherd other than Christ.

It is also why those of faith tend to lean the other way on the political spectrum, because they already have a shepherd they don't see much need in another.
 
Nov 2012
2,743
1,680
Rhondda
People won't need the state? Give man example.

From a Christian perspective, we all are sheep. That means we all cling to a shepherd.

This is why atheists tend to be left wing, they have adopted a shepherd other than Christ.

It is also why those of faith tend to lean the other way on the political spectrum, because they already have a shepherd they don't see much need in another.
I don't understand your first question. Capitalism, like all forms of class oppression, needs the state to keep hold of its swag and confuse the mugs. Once it's gone, there will be plenty for everyone, as they need it, but at the moment capitalism is universal. I imagine that people who still live out Nineteenth-Century controversies and define their beliefs in terms of rejecting some religion live in countries where governments are religious, and therefore see themselves as 'left', though in my experience most extreme-rightists do not hold 'religious' beliefs or, if they do, detest any attempt to live Christianity above all things. In my experience, for what its worth, all convincing Christians are socialists, because they can't steal from neighbours if they love them. Who knows what all the pretend-ones are?
 
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