Hey Ireland, Go Straight To Hell

Nov 2012
11,342
9,736
nirvana
http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/11/15/1199711/savita-halapannavar-bella-swan/



Despite this, the foetus was not removed until Wednesday afternoon, after the foetal heartbeat had stopped. Immediately after the procedure she was taken to the high dependency unit. Her condition never improved. She died at 1.09am on Sunday the 28th of October. Had the foetus been removed when it became clear that it could not survive, her cervix would have been closed and her chance of infection dramatically reduced. Leaving a woman’s cervix open constitutes a clear risk to her life. What is unclear is how doctors are expected to act in this situation.
 
Oct 2012
3,301
368
Viking World
http://thinkprogress...var-bella-swan/



Despite this, the foetus was not removed until Wednesday afternoon, after the foetal heartbeat had stopped. Immediately after the procedure she was taken to the high dependency unit. Her condition never improved. She died at 1.09am on Sunday the 28th of October. Had the foetus been removed when it became clear that it could not survive, her cervix would have been closed and her chance of infection dramatically reduced. Leaving a woman’s cervix open constitutes a clear risk to her life. What is unclear is how doctors are expected to act in this situation.


I really hate your title. How can you justify attacking Ireland because of a alleged death in an irish hospital? Do you have any idea how many horrible things I alone have heard American's do? Your title is insulting and very unintelligent. That you are outraged is understandable, but that you justify using your rage to attack the wrong source and victimize other innocent people is very hypocritcal.



Two wrongs don't make a right. I love Ireland and the irish and for you to link the entire nation with one bad incident is a horror in itself. Should we condemn and send all americans to hell for the My Lai, Vietnam massacre? For your own sake change the title before you loose all respect and credibility.



It is horrible yet that ONE woman is dead because of this situation, but you are now falsely accusing a nation of more than 4 million people for this and wanting them send to hell for it? Get real!



If there is a heaven and hell this women may be in heaven, but to wish 4 million people to hell is a far greater crime than it is to send one person to the afterlife.

All you do with this is increase the shock and put more salt on the wound. I wish I had never seen this post.
 
Nov 2012
11,342
9,736
nirvana
skews13' timestamp='1353035739' post='438544 said:
http://thinkprogress...var-bella-swan/



Despite this, the foetus was not removed until Wednesday afternoon, after the foetal heartbeat had stopped. Immediately after the procedure she was taken to the high dependency unit. Her condition never improved. She died at 1.09am on Sunday the 28th of October. Had the foetus been removed when it became clear that it could not survive, her cervix would have been closed and her chance of infection dramatically reduced. Leaving a woman’s cervix open constitutes a clear risk to her life. What is unclear is how doctors are expected to act in this situation.


I really hate your title. How can you justify attacking Ireland because of a alleged death in an irish hospital? Do you have any idea how many horrible things I alone have heard American's do? Your title is insulting and very unintelligent. That you are outraged is understandable, but that you justify using your rage to attack the wrong source and victimize other innocent people is very hypocritcal.



Two wrongs don't make a right. I love Ireland and the irish and for you to link the entire nation with one bad incident is a horror in itself. Should we condemn and send all americans to hell for the My Lai, Vietnam massacre? For your own sake change the title before you loose all respect and credibility.



It is horrible yet that ONE woman is dead because of this situation, but you are now falsely accusing a nation of more than 4 million people for this and wanting them send to hell for it? Get real!



If there is a heaven and hell this women may be in heaven, but to wish 4 million people to hell is a far greater crime than it is to send one person to the afterlife.

All you do with this is increase the shock and put more salt on the wound. I wish I had never seen this post.
Who I can blame are the majority that voted for their lawmakers, the lawmakers themselve's, and the Catholic church who pushed those laws on the people. There are a lot of people complicit in the murder of that woman, and have no illusion in your mind. It was murder. State sanctioned murder based upon religious dogma. I firmly stand behind the title, the premise of the article, and my opinion of it.
 
Jun 2012
41,952
15,181
Barsoom
Nienna' timestamp='1353038473' post='438553 said:
[quote name='skews13' timestamp='1353035739' post='438544']

http://thinkprogress...var-bella-swan/



Despite this, the foetus was not removed until Wednesday afternoon, after the foetal heartbeat had stopped. Immediately after the procedure she was taken to the high dependency unit. Her condition never improved. She died at 1.09am on Sunday the 28th of October. Had the foetus been removed when it became clear that it could not survive, her cervix would have been closed and her chance of infection dramatically reduced. Leaving a woman’s cervix open constitutes a clear risk to her life. What is unclear is how doctors are expected to act in this situation.


I really hate your title. How can you justify attacking Ireland because of a alleged death in an irish hospital? Do you have any idea how many horrible things I alone have heard American's do? Your title is insulting and very unintelligent. That you are outraged is understandable, but that you justify using your rage to attack the wrong source and victimize other innocent people is very hypocritcal.



Two wrongs don't make a right. I love Ireland and the irish and for you to link the entire nation with one bad incident is a horror in itself. Should we condemn and send all americans to hell for the My Lai, Vietnam massacre? For your own sake change the title before you loose all respect and credibility.



It is horrible yet that ONE woman is dead because of this situation, but you are now falsely accusing a nation of more than 4 million people for this and wanting them send to hell for it? Get real!



If there is a heaven and hell this women may be in heaven, but to wish 4 million people to hell is a far greater crime than it is to send one person to the afterlife.

All you do with this is increase the shock and put more salt on the wound. I wish I had never seen this post.
Who I can blame are the majority that voted for their lawmakers, the lawmakers themselve's, and the Catholic church who pushed those laws on the people. There are a lot of people complicit in the murder of that woman, and have no illusion in your mind. It was murder. State sanctioned murder based upon religious dogma. I firmly stand behind the title, the premise of the article, and my opinion of it.

[/quote]



I am convinced that you spend an inordinate amount of time in the sewers of the internet scavenging around for the dumbest propaganda articles you can find fraught with lies. This is no different. You do not know one thing about Ireland's abortion laws. She was not murdered, she died. The doctors were well within their rights to save her life by any means necessary. You don't, and I don't know what their exact reasons are for not aborting the baby to save the woman's life. You are relying entirely on one of the most prolific dispersers of lies, Thinkprogress for your facts.



You do not have the sense to separate religion and life. Using your logic, all atheists are morally OK with any murder because they do not believe in God, and that is not the case. Ireland's 8th Amendment states that an unborn baby has an explicit right to life from the time of conception. That is a matter of life, not religion. Ireland's abortion laws are as old as the Republic, and you are presenting the laws as some recent onslaught of rabid religious dogma. Why don't you try posting something you might actually understand and can defend?
 

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
70,758
31,230
Colorado
skews13' timestamp='1353040035' post='438557 said:
[quote name='Nienna' timestamp='1353038473' post='438553']

[quote name='skews13' timestamp='1353035739' post='438544']

http://thinkprogress...var-bella-swan/



Despite this, the foetus was not removed until Wednesday afternoon, after the foetal heartbeat had stopped. Immediately after the procedure she was taken to the high dependency unit. Her condition never improved. She died at 1.09am on Sunday the 28th of October. Had the foetus been removed when it became clear that it could not survive, her cervix would have been closed and her chance of infection dramatically reduced. Leaving a woman’s cervix open constitutes a clear risk to her life. What is unclear is how doctors are expected to act in this situation.


I really hate your title. How can you justify attacking Ireland because of a alleged death in an irish hospital? Do you have any idea how many horrible things I alone have heard American's do? Your title is insulting and very unintelligent. That you are outraged is understandable, but that you justify using your rage to attack the wrong source and victimize other innocent people is very hypocritcal.



Two wrongs don't make a right. I love Ireland and the irish and for you to link the entire nation with one bad incident is a horror in itself. Should we condemn and send all americans to hell for the My Lai, Vietnam massacre? For your own sake change the title before you loose all respect and credibility.



It is horrible yet that ONE woman is dead because of this situation, but you are now falsely accusing a nation of more than 4 million people for this and wanting them send to hell for it? Get real!



If there is a heaven and hell this women may be in heaven, but to wish 4 million people to hell is a far greater crime than it is to send one person to the afterlife.

All you do with this is increase the shock and put more salt on the wound. I wish I had never seen this post.
Who I can blame are the majority that voted for their lawmakers, the lawmakers themselve's, and the Catholic church who pushed those laws on the people. There are a lot of people complicit in the murder of that woman, and have no illusion in your mind. It was murder. State sanctioned murder based upon religious dogma. I firmly stand behind the title, the premise of the article, and my opinion of it.

[/quote]



I am convinced that you spend an inordinate amount of time in the sewers of the internet scavenging around for the dumbest propaganda articles you can find fraught with lies. This is no different. You do not know one thing about Ireland's abortion laws. She was not murdered, she died. The doctors were well within their rights to save her life by any means necessary. You don't, and I don't know what their exact reasons are for not aborting the baby to save the woman's life. You are relying entirely on one of the most prolific dispersers of lies, Thinkprogress for your facts.



You do not have the sense to separate religion and life. Using your logic, all atheists are morally OK with any murder because they do not believe in God, and that is not the case. Ireland's 8th Amendment states that an unborn baby has an explicit right to life from the time of conception. That is a matter of life, not religion. Ireland's abortion laws are as old as the Republic, and you are presenting the laws as some recent onslaught of rabid religious dogma. Why don't you try posting something you might actually understand and can defend?

[/quote]



Will a conservative-leaning news source satisfy ya?





Savita’s death could force reform of Ireland’s anti-abortion law



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]There was no possibility of her 17-week fetus surviving; delaying termination risked it killing the mother through septicemia.[/font]

[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]But doctors at the hospital in Galway, western Ireland, stood firm even though the 31-year-old Indian woman pleaded with them. [/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]“I am not Catholic or Irish,” she said.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]She died, of course, as did her baby. It’s hard to believe anyone can feel triumphant and confirmed in their righteousness about this result.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]The blame can be laid at the Irish government’s door: it has refused to clarify the law, despite five referendums, pressure from the European Court of Human Rights and several high-profile cases, including that of “X,” a teenager who became pregnant after being raped.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Shane Coleman at the Irish Independent wonders why the government continues to sit on the fence.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Hard cases, any lawyer will tell you, make bad law. Yet the only time we seem willing to deal with the abortion issue in Ireland is when such a hard case arises.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]We’ve had the “X” and “C” cases and the huge political fallout those heart-breaking stories generated. It seems likely that the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar will also have a similar effect on the abortion debate.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Why does it take such high-profile, but largely exceptional, examples to propel abortion back to the forefront of public debate? Every day, 11 Irish women travel to the U.K. for an abortion but we as a country are hugely reluctant to deal with this fact, preferring a uniquely Irish solution to an Irish problem.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]An editorial in the Limerick Post says the doctors in Galway should have acted.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Savita died because Irish law, as it stands, places more importance on abiding to the terms of an outdated 1983 constitutional amendment guaranteeing the rights of human embryos, than on the wellbeing of the mother …[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Under the 1992 “X” case ruling, the Supreme Court found that abortion is permitted in Ireland where there is a substantial risk to the mother’s life. Twenty years later, successive governments have failed to create legislation to enact this ruling, leaving doctors in limbo in situations such as this.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Savita’s death will spark widespread debate among the pro-choice and anti-abortion camps but support for or opposition to abortion is irrelevant in this case. That the Halappanavars’ unborn child would never survive to full term is outside anyone’s control but there is little doubt but that Savita’s needless death could have been prevented.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Ironically, one of the reasons Savita and her husband Praveenchose to settle in Ireland was because they believed it was a good place to start a family, he told the Irish Times.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]All our friends had great stories to tell about the babies they had in Ireland. So we decided we’d go there. We had heard Ireland was a good place to have a baby. Most of our friends there had babies there and they’re all fine and so we decided: have a baby in Ireland.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif][Savita’s mother added:] “In an attempt to save a four-month-old fetus they killed my … daughter. How is that fair you tell me? How many more cases will there be? The rules should be changed as per the requirement of Hindus. We are Hindus, not Christians.”[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]At The Spectator, Alex Massie points to the hypocrisy that allows thousands of Irish women to have abortions, just not in Ireland.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]What is certain … is that something like this was likely to happen at some point. It was just a matter of time; the unavoidable consequence of abortion laws that are cruelty disguised as piety, cowardice misrepresented as principle.

Of course the doctors could not have predicted that their patient would contract septicemia, far less that she would die from it. However they must have known that the longer it took for her to miscarry the greater the health risks to which she must necessarily be exposed. Better, however, for Mrs. Halapannavar to suffer agonies than permit the merciful termination of a doomed pregnancy. This Is A Catholic Country, after all …
[/font]




[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]For decades Ireland has pretended that abortion does not exist. But it does. Thousands of Irish women travel to England each year to have their pregnancies terminated. Irish abortion is a reality; it just doesn’t happen on Irish soil.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]At The Guardian, Henry McDonald believes Irish lawmakers may act because the Catholic Church has been discredited by revelations about its priests sexually abusing children.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif][T]he present government does have some space not afforded to any other administration in the past. When the religious right forced through the 1983 constitutional amendment the Catholic Church was a powerful and feared force throughout the land. Barring a few leftwing deputies, few if any Irish politicians would have said boo to a bishop let alone dare suggest the church’s stance on abortion was wrong.[/font]



[font=georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif]Since the deluge of dirt started to cascade over the Catholic Church in the way it covered up pedophile priest scandals and child abuse stories the hierarchy’s reputation has been shredded in the eyes of the majority of the republic’s population.[/font]
 
Jun 2012
41,952
15,181
Barsoom
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The BBC?[/font]



[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Savita Halappanavar - Irish embassy protest over death[/font]



[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The Guardian?[/font]



[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Savita Halappanavar 'would still be alive if she had been treated in India'[/font]


As I stated, it is propaganda to perpetuate an agenda. Every article is filled with conjecture, could haves, possibles, etc. These are the facts: she died, her baby died, and her doctors had options, under Irish law, to save the mother over the baby if they had to. There is not factual evidence of what exactly happened or why the doctors did what they did or did not do. The entire situation is still being investigated by the Irish department, Health Service Executive. When this report is completed, then what happened and why will be available to the public.



Not one of the sources can make the statement, "Savita Halappanavar would still be alive if..." until the investigation is complete. It is headline grabbing sensationalism to advance abortion. I have zero opinion on what happened, should the baby have been aborted earlier, would it have saved her life, etc. because there are no facts to substantiate.
 
Sep 2012
7,516
1,549
Ventura CA

imaginethat

Forum Staff
Oct 2010
70,758
31,230
Colorado
imaginethat' timestamp='1353096515' post='438688 said:
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The BBC?[/font]



[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Savita Halappanavar - Irish embassy protest over death[/font]



[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]The Guardian?[/font]



[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Savita Halappanavar 'would still be alive if she had been treated in India'[/font]


As I stated, it is propaganda to perpetuate an agenda. Every article is filled with conjecture, could haves, possibles, etc. These are the facts: she died, her baby died, and her doctors had options, under Irish law, to save the mother over the baby if they had to. There is not factual evidence of what exactly happened or why the doctors did what they did or did not do. The entire situation is still being investigated by the Irish department, Health Service Executive. When this report is completed, then what happened and why will be available to the public.



Not one of the sources can make the statement, "Savita Halappanavar would still be alive if..." until the investigation is complete. It is headline grabbing sensationalism to advance abortion. I have zero opinion on what happened, should the baby have been aborted earlier, would it have saved her life, etc. because there are no facts to substantiate.


There was no "baby" to abort. She was 17 weeks pregnant, dilated, and her water had broken. In no circumstance could a 17-week old fetus survive outside of the body. The doctors intervened when the fetal heartbeat ceased, probably from sepsis.



What else do you need in the way of additional information?