Housing

Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#1
Until just recently we all felt pretty secure with our housing, but this area has received a flood people and our rents have skyrocketed. People with Section 8 housing are in danger of loosing their housing and the demand for assisted housing is so high, waiting lists for Section 8 housing have been closed. Those who get to the top of the Section 8 housing for privately owned rentals, cannot find affordable housing fast enough so they loose their opportunity to find housing and are thrown off the list and cannot get back on the list until a list opens again. Elderly people are joining the homeless because housing is not affordable and there is not enough subsidize housing for them. We are in crisis now. Anyone care to discuss this?
 
Dec 2015
13,741
12,623
Arizona
#2
There are several places in the U.S. where housing is out of sight. Even if we throw out places like San Francisco, Boston, New York, D.C., Honolulu, and L.A. it is shocking to find out that there are hundreds of other cities who are almost as pricey: Boulder, Denver, Minneapolis, Seattle, Philly--even Bozeman, Montana??
Prices in Arizona have always been pretty reasonable except for Scottsdale and Sedona, but even our little retirement community has watched prices jump.
I don't know WHAT the solution is, Athena, but I really don't know how people afford housing these days.
 
Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#4
There are several places in the U.S. where housing is out of sight. Even if we throw out places like San Francisco, Boston, New York, D.C., Honolulu, and L.A. it is shocking to find out that there are hundreds of other cities who are almost as pricey: Boulder, Denver, Minneapolis, Seattle, Philly--even Bozeman, Montana??
Prices in Arizona have always been pretty reasonable except for Scottsdale and Sedona, but even our little retirement community has watched prices jump.
I don't know WHAT the solution is, Athena, but I really don't know how people afford housing these days.
Thank you so much for your reply. When we argue about being conservative of liberty or progressive, ect. I really want the conversation to change to identifying problems and discussing people solutions. The rest of the world faced overpopulation long ago. That is what pushed so many of them to the New Land. In the US we are not accustomed to the crowding people into limited space as other countries take for granted, and in some countries, socialism is the solution to maintaining a high standard of living.

I want us to become much more mathematically minded and stop the stupid arguing and get down to being realistic. We did not have the homelessness we have today, and it is not acceptable to have beggars on our streets and people sleeping on the parks, and trying to use a law, to force them into hiding, is unacceptable denial of a problem.
 
Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#5
I am listening to lectures about world history, and the people of Germany, the people we opposed in the war Roosevelt spoke of, would have agreed with Roosevelt 100%. That was exactly what the Germany's thought they were fighting for. It is most unfortunate Hitler used racism to advance his political goals.

Let us be aware that Germany had kindergartens, a national pension plan, worker's compensation, and national health care, before the US. The US has adopted much of this and adopted the German model of bureaucracy, merit highering, and education for technology. Yet, the US has not adopted the democratic model of industry that Germany uses. The US has not put as much effort into assuring people have work. The US has not done as much to assure people have decent housing. Other than the racist and military moves and attempts to control what people thought and said, that were also part of Hitler's plan, we might regret the US and the allies won the wars with wars with Germany.

Hitler did a lot to convince the people of Germany they were getting what Roosevelt said we should have. Our presidents have imitated Hitler in many ways, but this is about control, not about meeting public needs. Reagan scapegoated the poor and slashed domestic budgets and poured money into military spending as the German's did, only the Germans scapegoated the Jews, not all poor people. Does anyone else remember Reagan saying we don't have homeless, just bums, and that it was the poor causing our economic problem, when the problem was caused by OPEC embargoing old to the US?

Can we work with the fact that Germans and US citizens were fighting for the same social good, and that Germany has done better than the US?
 
Jun 2018
3,366
820
South Dakota
#6
Section 8 housing sounds good at the onset but later deteriorates to the same slums seen in the old inner city "projects". When I lived in Calif. we lived in a house in the middle of a citrus grove. When the Ag tax exemption expired the grovers all sold out to developers. When it came time to develop we had meetings to discuss te nature of the development. The discussion came to Sec 8. Virtually everyone was against them. The only people advocating were community organizer types. Some of the conversatons were brutal. Developers were required to "set aside" land for low income apartments. That didn't happen. But we got a real education on the way real estate development was run in the state and why prices were so high. Our property wouldn't suffer under any circumstance so we had no skin in the game.
One comment sticks to this day. One resident commented that allowing Sec 8 in the area would only serve to move the thieves closer to their victims so they wouldn't have far to walk to break into her house.
It's too bad that the laws force the depression of property values that Sec 8 brings.
 
Sep 2018
5,666
946
cleveland ohio
#7
I am listening to lectures about world history, and the people of Germany, the people we opposed in the war Roosevelt spoke of, would have agreed with Roosevelt 100%. That was exactly what the Germany's thought they were fighting for. It is most unfortunate Hitler used racism to advance his political goals.

Let us be aware that Germany had kindergartens, a national pension plan, worker's compensation, and national health care, before the US. The US has adopted much of this and adopted the German model of bureaucracy, merit highering, and education for technology. Yet, the US has not adopted the democratic model of industry that Germany uses. The US has not put as much effort into assuring people have work. The US has not done as much to assure people have decent housing. Other than the racist and military moves and attempts to control what people thought and said, that were also part of Hitler's plan, we might regret the US and the allies won the wars with wars with Germany.

Hitler did a lot to convince the people of Germany they were getting what Roosevelt said we should have. Our presidents have imitated Hitler in many ways, but this is about control, not about meeting public needs. Reagan scapegoated the poor and slashed domestic budgets and poured money into military spending as the German's did, only the Germans scapegoated the Jews, not all poor people. Does anyone else remember Reagan saying we don't have homeless, just bums, and that it was the poor causing our economic problem, when the problem was caused by OPEC embargoing old to the US?

Can we work with the fact that Germans and US citizens were fighting for the same social good, and that Germany has done better than the US?
hitler wasnt all bad
An association fallacy is an informal inductive fallacy of the hasty-generalization or red-herring type and which asserts, by irrelevant association and often by appeal to emotion, that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another.

In 1991, Michael André Bernstein alleged reductio ad Hitlerum over a full-page advertisement placed in The New York Times by the Lubavitch community, following the Crown Heights Riot, under the heading "This Year Kristallnacht Took Place on August 19th Right Here in Crown Heights." Henry Schwarzschild, who had witnessed Kristallnacht, wrote to the New York Times that "however ugly were the anti-Semitic slogans and the assaultive behavior of people in the streets [during the Crown Heights riots]... one thing that clearly did not take place was a Kristallnacht."[12]

American conservative radio and television host Glenn Beck is often criticized for his frequent use of reductio ad Hitlerum, including a controversial statement comparing the victims of the 2011 Norway attacks to members of the Hitler Youth.[13] Beck has also compared the National Endowment for the Arts to Joseph Goebbels[14] and ACORN to Hitler's "Brown Shirts".[15]

The American Conservative accused Jonah Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism of employing the reductio fallacy:

That Nazism and contemporary liberalism both promote healthy living is as meaningless a finding as that bloody marys and martinis may both be made with gin. Repeatedly, Goldberg fails to recognize a reductio ad absurdum. ... In no case does Goldberg uncover anything more ominous than a coincidence.[16]
 
Likes: MichaelT
Sep 2018
5,666
946
cleveland ohio
#8
I am listening to lectures about world history, and the people of Germany, the people we opposed in the war Roosevelt spoke of, would have agreed with Roosevelt 100%. That was exactly what the Germany's thought they were fighting for. It is most unfortunate Hitler used racism to advance his political goals.

Let us be aware that Germany had kindergartens, a national pension plan, worker's compensation, and national health care, before the US. The US has adopted much of this and adopted the German model of bureaucracy, merit highering, and education for technology. Yet, the US has not adopted the democratic model of industry that Germany uses. The US has not put as much effort into assuring people have work. The US has not done as much to assure people have decent housing. Other than the racist and military moves and attempts to control what people thought and said, that were also part of Hitler's plan, we might regret the US and the allies won the wars with wars with Germany.

Hitler did a lot to convince the people of Germany they were getting what Roosevelt said we should have. Our presidents have imitated Hitler in many ways, but this is about control, not about meeting public needs. Reagan scapegoated the poor and slashed domestic budgets and poured money into military spending as the German's did, only the Germans scapegoated the Jews, not all poor people. Does anyone else remember Reagan saying we don't have homeless, just bums, and that it was the poor causing our economic problem, when the problem was caused by OPEC embargoing old to the US?

Can we work with the fact that Germans and US citizens were fighting for the same social good, and that Germany has done better than the US?
Germany is a much better place than the usa
 
Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#9
hitler wasnt all bad
An association fallacy is an informal inductive fallacy of the hasty-generalization or red-herring type and which asserts, by irrelevant association and often by appeal to emotion, that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another.

In 1991, Michael André Bernstein alleged reductio ad Hitlerum over a full-page advertisement placed in The New York Times by the Lubavitch community, following the Crown Heights Riot, under the heading "This Year Kristallnacht Took Place on August 19th Right Here in Crown Heights." Henry Schwarzschild, who had witnessed Kristallnacht, wrote to the New York Times that "however ugly were the anti-Semitic slogans and the assaultive behavior of people in the streets [during the Crown Heights riots]... one thing that clearly did not take place was a Kristallnacht."[12]

American conservative radio and television host Glenn Beck is often criticized for his frequent use of reductio ad Hitlerum, including a controversial statement comparing the victims of the 2011 Norway attacks to members of the Hitler Youth.[13] Beck has also compared the National Endowment for the Arts to Joseph Goebbels[14] and ACORN to Hitler's "Brown Shirts".[15]

The American Conservative accused Jonah Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism of employing the reductio fallacy:

That Nazism and contemporary liberalism both promote healthy living is as meaningless a finding as that bloody marys and martinis may both be made with gin. Repeatedly, Goldberg fails to recognize a reductio ad absurdum. ... In no case does Goldberg uncover anything more ominous than a coincidence.[16]
Your post seems to divert attention away from the fact that the promises of Hitler and Roosevelt were the same and the US imitated Germany in very significant ways to fulfil those promises and we seriously need to be aware of the organizational forces that come into play here.

The mentality that was a problem is the same in the US and Germany.

I would like to exclude racism as a problem in the US, but racism has been a serious problem in the US. Hitler's thoughts of perfecting the human race are based on the eugenics first developed in the US. The concentration camps follow Germany knowledge of native American reservations in the US.

I find your post difficult to understand. What are the points you are trying to make? You need to use your own words.
 
Sep 2018
5,666
946
cleveland ohio
#10
Your post seems to divert attention away from the fact that the promises of Hitler and Roosevelt were the same and the US imitated Germany in very significant ways to fulfil those promises and we seriously need to be aware of the organizational forces that come into play here.

The mentality that was a problem is the same in the US and Germany.

I would like to exclude racism as a problem in the US, but racism has been a serious problem in the US. Hitler's thoughts of perfecting the human race are based on the eugenics first developed in the US. The concentration camps follow Germany knowledge of native American reservations in the US.

I find your post difficult to understand. What are the points you are trying to make? You need to use your own words.
hitlers eugenics ideas came from the usa but not from fdr from people like coolidge
 

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