How do we reduce the number of mass shootings?

Nov 2012
41,006
11,805
Lebanon, TN
#51
So, what do you think would have happened if EVERYONE in that theater had a firearm and shooting started. Play that out for me.
shooter is neutralized lives saved. It only takes 1.

Remember the lowest homicide rate in the US was during the period when every human being was carrying guns.
 
Mar 2018
1,240
219
Grayson
#52
You cannot know whether I know Lott or not.

I have presented a critique of Lott's work and you can search the Internet for more if you want. He is not affiliated with any institution of higher learning now and is repeatedly shown to present misrepresentations of data.

SCOTUS actually has other jobs beyond reviewing law on appeal as the supreme court of the land. Read the Constitution.

Science is all about evaluating data in a fashion that everyone can agree is an impartial manner. So, science has everything to do with eliminating bias to the extent possible in every collection of data reported.

Your quotes, out of context from the Constitution Society, only apply to law that reaches SCOTUS on appeal and is judged to be constitutional or unconstitutional. You cannot decide that a law is unconstitutional merely because you think it is unconstitutional. The law exists as valid until it is proven invalid (unconstitutional).

Try not to get worked up about all this...
Dude, don't get your boxers in a bunch. ANYONE you can quote, I find half a dozen experts to refute their beliefs. You need to chill out. So, you're saying that are no mass shootings in the United States? Let's make it simple for everyone. That is the position that you're taking.
 
Nov 2018
4,405
2,343
Inner Space
#53
Dude, don't get your boxers in a bunch. ANYONE you can quote, I find half a dozen experts to refute their beliefs. You need to chill out. So, you're saying that are no mass shootings in the United States? Let's make it simple for everyone. That is the position that you're taking.
Apparently you are not reading my posts.
However, the first goal would be to define mass shootings. Usually that is greater than or equal to 4 killed, with or without the shooter but definitions vary.
Now, what is the definition that Lott uses for his claims and what is the actual data that you want to use to defend your assertions?
 
Nov 2018
4,405
2,343
Inner Space
#54
shooter is neutralized lives saved. It only takes 1.

Remember the lowest homicide rate in the US was during the period when every human being was carrying guns.
so you really did not answer the question. Ok. I will assume that you cannot answer it.
 
Mar 2018
1,240
219
Grayson
#55
Apparently you are not reading my posts.
However, the first goal would be to define mass shootings. Usually that is greater than or equal to 4 killed, with or without the shooter but definitions vary.
Now, what is the definition that Lott uses for his claims and what is the actual data that you want to use to defend your assertions?
Take Lott out of the picture. You are denying that mass shootings occur, which was the only point being made. ANYTHING other than that fact is irrelevant to this thread.
 
Nov 2012
41,006
11,805
Lebanon, TN
#56
so you really did not answer the question. Ok. I will assume that you cannot answer it.
No I answered it and my answer was based in fact, shown by shootings where armed citizens were present I gave a list of several in post 38..

so, I cannot help it if you are not capable to understand the correct answer. As I said it just takes 1 armed citizen to put an end to a mass shooting.

I can add to those listed in post

The Smyrna Church Shooting
Oregon Mall shooting

~20 cases where a shooter decided to start shooting in GUN PRESENT zone.
 
Jul 2014
14,947
9,157
massachusetts
#57
Background checks something the NRA pushed for and finally got passed
Well first you don't attack the rights of LEGAL gun owners.

It is like a Bank saying we no longer allow withdrawals by their customers, because there are bank robbers.
So let anybody buy guns, and then you can tell who the crazy people are by the body count....
 
Nov 2012
41,006
11,805
Lebanon, TN
#59
Oh, yeah, the time that never existed, that was the best...

1870-1910 homicide rates were ~1/100,000 (almost every one during this period of our history carried a gun on their person.)

Since 48 states passed Shall Carry laws the homicide rate has declined from 10/100,000 to 4/100,000 (a 60% decline)

 
Mar 2013
10,033
10,812
Middle Tennessee
#60
HOW DO WE STOP MASS SHOOTINGS?

In my previous post, I used the case of Parkland, Florida shooter, Nicholas Cruz as an example of how to identify what will be, most likely a mass shooter. There are certain behaviors that, once a sufficient number of them have been committed, the individual will most assuredly commit a violent act. So, in Nicholas Cruz's case, let us suppose that Florida commissioned an Intervention Program. Here is how it would work:

In the case, Broward County would have allocated some of its resources to this effort without starting another bureaucracy. You simply pull some local LEOs, a psychiatrist, some social workers / investigators, etc. into their own office. Their only job is to monitor the school system, identify problem children / youth, and oversee the Intervention Program.

When a child enters school, they are registered and all of them have a school ID number. This being the case, each time that someone under the age of 18 has some form of incident, it would be reported to the authorities. This includes, but would not be limited to: a reportable incident at school, a school expulsion, authorities being summoned to the home (i.e. domestic calls), tardiness / absence from school, police reports generated by parties reporting suspicious, questionable, and / or illegal activity. In this instance, this county Intervention Program would be notified. If an individual generates 3 of these reports within a 45 day period or 5 incidents within a 12 month time period, Intervention computers would be programmed to be notify that agency.

The Intervention Program would then spring into action. A social worker would be sent to the home to notify the parents and also meet with the child face to face in private. At this juncture, the social workers would begin to build a profile of both the child AND the family. They would be asking questions like whether or not there are two parents in the home? Do they work? How long is the child left unattended? Do the parents smoke, drink, do drugs, have a criminal history? What is the condition of the house? Is it clean or dirty?

An interview with the child may reveal whether they are unhappy at school, are living in a dysfunctional home, or maybe having emotional / psychological / psychiatric issues.

Once all of that is determined, it may be recommended that the child and / or the parents receive counseling in order to address the issue. If, within the next 60 days that child has another incident, counseling will be mandated for both the child and the parents. Additionally, the child would undergo a battery of tests to determine their IQ, involvement with illegal drugs, gang participation, and a search of their social media accounts. If warranted, the child may also be referred to the Intervention psychiatrist. If drugs are prescribed, the child and the parent will have a home visit from a social worker every 45 days. Furthermore, if after the mandated counseling and drugs (if any) are not working, the child should be removed from the home and placed into a rehabilitation facility.

In addition, the parents would be required to take parenting classes. These would take place in public schools after hours and on Saturdays. Before the child could return home, the parents would have to demonstrate that they can provide an adequate environment for the child. Additionally, the child would have to show that they are, indeed, rehabilitated. For the following 6 months, the family would have once a week sessions with a therapist and then evaluated for release or further intervention.

NO drugs can be prescribed until all the markers have been met to warrant a meeting with the psychiatrist. Any child on drugs must meet with a therapist at least 2 times per month in order to be eligible for them. In cases where ADD / ADHD are an issue, social workers must do an in depth interview with the parents to rule out dysfunction in the home. Adderall and Ritalin may only be masking an abusive and / or dangerous environment, not enough time being spent on physical exercise, inappropriate amount of sleep, an inadequate diet, or too much computer time - not to mention the child's interests may be counterproductive to a healthy lifestyle.

It is the supervision, interaction, and the child making constant progress that will make the difference in whether they blend into society or become a recidivist to the system. We can't keep handing kids a few pills, put them in rehab or expect therapy alone to cure them. You identify the root problem and eliminate it or put the child in a rehabilitation facility. You cannot sweep family dysfunction, mental illness, abuse, etc. under the rug and think a note from a single therapist will make everything okay.

Not a bad plan. Not bad at all. But I have a coupe questions. While you're obviously focused on the mental health care of the minor in question, what about homes where weapons are present ?? At what point in this scenario do we consider removing weapons from the home ?? Not just firearms, but anything beyond a steak knife. If they are removed who keeps them ?? As you are probably aware, the Nashville Waffle House shooter had been deemed mentally unfit and the state of Illinois had quite correctly revoked his license to own, much less carry a weapon. The police gave those weapons to his father for safe keeping. I'm not sure of the time line but the father returned those weapons to his mentally ill son. So who should keep those weapons ? What should the penalty be for returning them. Personally I think the father should be charged with murder just like the shooter. How long do you think the state should require compliance and clean reports from the doctors before weapons could be returned ??

You're program would obviously catch the budding mass killers before they acted out. But what about those already over 18 ?? What about those that give few if any signs ?? I'm actually worried about my former boss who is in his 50s. He has always been conservative, down right prudish if you ask me. But he's gone through an extremely ugly divorced. He's trying to hang on to his job while I and many others have been let go. I have watched his facebook feed and he appears to be traveling the same road to radicalization as the Florida bomber Cesar Sayoc. As sad as it sounds I wouldn't be surprised to wake up to the news he had gone on a shooting spree. But until he does he has committed no overt actions that I could contact the police about. It's just a not so vague feeling I and a few others that have known him for years have. Should ultra-conservative and occasionally mean posts on facebook be sufficient for law enforcement to be called ??
 

Similar Discussions