If a city was being designed from scratch, what would you like for it to have?

Feb 2014
2,434
1,131
Oregon
#33
Pretty typical suburbian stuff: hospitals, clinics, retail stores, banks, restaurants, gas stations, real estate companies, assisted/independent living facilities, golf courses, 4 rec centers, social services, accounting, attorneys, churches, etc.
Is that what you meant?
Yes, that is important to planning a city, but what gives the city money in the first place? I think many communities are making bad planning decisions because they think of everything you mentioned but where does the money come from? All the things you mentioned is an exchange of money, but there is no money to pass around if the community as a whole does not have an income.

For example, Texans got the benefit of oil money, Oregon has the benefit of timber, one place supports the community with an electric plant and selling electricity. The greater the community's resources for income, the less it has to tax the people, and it has money to spend on all the services that provide all those lovely jobs. So what does the community have to sell that gives it an income? If you have nothing but human labor to sell, your community must spend a lot on preparing them to be valuable products for industry, and you will have a mass that isn't high tech quality needing manual type labor, and perhaps little income for services and low-income housing and good schools.
 
Dec 2015
13,281
12,128
Arizona
#34
Yes, that is important to planning a city, but what gives the city money in the first place? I think many communities are making bad planning decisions because they think of everything you mentioned but where does the money come from? All the things you mentioned is an exchange of money, but there is no money to pass around if the community as a whole does not have an income.

For example, Texans got the benefit of oil money, Oregon has the benefit of timber, one place supports the community with an electric plant and selling electricity. The greater the community's resources for income, the less it has to tax the people, and it has money to spend on all the services that provide all those lovely jobs. So what does the community have to sell that gives it an income? If you have nothing but human labor to sell, your community must spend a lot on preparing them to be valuable products for industry, and you will have a mass that isn't high tech quality needing manual type labor, and perhaps little income for services and low-income housing and good schools.

I don't follow your logic. No money to pass around? What does that even mean?
Small towns all over this country do not have manufacturing, or oil or timber or industry and they are thriving because of property taxes, sales taxes, land lease/sales, franchise fees, permits, cable fees, telephone access lines, local businesses, technology, service oriented businesses, etc. Just our golf courses alone generate millions of dollars annually. Maybe I am not understanding your point, but the community we live in is prospering.
 
Apr 2013
34,337
23,186
Left coast
#35
I don't follow your logic. No money to pass around? What does that even mean?
Small towns all over this country do not have manufacturing, or oil or timber or industry and they are thriving because of property taxes, sales taxes, land lease/sales, franchise fees, permits, cable fees, telephone access lines, local businesses, technology, service oriented businesses, etc. Just our golf courses alone generate millions of dollars annually. Maybe I am not understanding your point, but the community we live in is prospering.
Her point is a valid one. Wealth is created by producing or building. The rest is just moving money around. But even building depends on producing first.

Farmers produce food. That creates wealth. Loggers produce lumber, miners produce steel, surface mines produce concrete, oil companies produce oil and natural gas. These are primary industries.

If your community doesn't have such things, the money for the hospitals, clinics, retail stores, banks, restaurants, gas stations, real estate companies, assisted/independent living facilities, golf courses, 4 rec centers, social services, accounting, attorneys, churches, etc had to come from some primary source. Either investment income or pensions etc, or wages that trace back to a primary source. Then it circulates around among the things you listed.

I think that's what Athena was getting at.
 
Jun 2018
2,850
724
South Dakota
#36
When thinking of an ideal city I finally came up with no city at all. Small villages spaced a few miles apart limited in size. Situated around a central services hub zone that provides all necessary services and provides employment for residents who want it. Houses to be designed for individual needs on largish lots, up to an acre. Generous green belts around each village. Small rail transit interconnects all villages and the hub thus eliminating the need for private transportation if the resident doesn't want a car etc.
To me something like this would be close to idea. The buggaboo is the economic system that would be needed to support it for everyone and not only the wealthy is virtually unattainable.
We are looking closely at an area that has almost all of these attributes. Missing is the transport system. It's also very affordable.
 
Likes: catus felis
Dec 2015
13,281
12,128
Arizona
#39
Her point is a valid one. Wealth is created by producing or building. The rest is just moving money around. But even building depends on producing first.

Farmers produce food. That creates wealth. Loggers produce lumber, miners produce steel, surface mines produce concrete, oil companies produce oil and natural gas. These are primary industries.

If your community doesn't have such things, the money for the hospitals, clinics, retail stores, banks, restaurants, gas stations, real estate companies, assisted/independent living facilities, golf courses, 4 rec centers, social services, accounting, attorneys, churches, etc had to come from some primary source. Either investment income or pensions etc, or wages that trace back to a primary source. Then it circulates around among the things you listed.

I think that's what Athena was getting at.

Like I said. Thousands (probably millions) of small towns all across this country DO NOT produce anything NOR do they build anything. The hospital in our town was built 30 years ago 1988 with $9 million dollars in donations. As far as I know, the builder donated the land. A foundation was created and by 2009 a donations to the tune of $340 million made it possible to add a wing to the hospital. As the surrounding land was sold, more medical facilities were created by private business men. The sale of lots/property taxes, etc. within our community has allowed the rec centers, some of the golf courses, swimming pools, tennis courts, parks, etc to be built. Other businesses are privately owned and operated.
When the community was created several companies saw that the area West of Phoenix was about to explode and took advantage of that. Large tracts of land were purchased, businesses were created and money poured BACK into the community a second time. All the churches were built through donations and none that I know of ever had a mortgage.
Senior housing is also privately/corporately owned. Banks are corporate but built here from the ground up, as were the two malls that we have. We have 3 grocery stores---all privately owned.
The little town I grew up in had no building--no manufacturing--no production. It's still there. Still doin' fine.
So, again. How are small towns prospering without the help of building and production??
 
Apr 2013
34,337
23,186
Left coast
#40
Like I said. Thousands (probably millions) of small towns all across this country DO NOT produce anything NOR do they build anything. The hospital in our town was built 30 years ago 1988 with $9 million dollars in donations. As far as I know, the builder donated the land. A foundation was created and by 2009 a donations to the tune of $340 million made it possible to add a wing to the hospital. As the surrounding land was sold, more medical facilities were created by private business men. The sale of lots/property taxes, etc. within our community has allowed the rec centers, some of the golf courses, swimming pools, tennis courts, parks, etc to be built. Other businesses are privately owned and operated.
When the community was created several companies saw that the area West of Phoenix was about to explode and took advantage of that. Large tracts of land were purchased, businesses were created and money poured BACK into the community a second time. All the churches were built through donations and none that I know of ever had a mortgage.
Senior housing is also privately/corporately owned. Banks are corporate but built here from the ground up, as were the two malls that we have. We have 3 grocery stores---all privately owned.
The little town I grew up in had no building--no manufacturing--no production. It's still there. Still doin' fine.
So, again. How are small towns prospering without the help of building and production??
But where did the money for the donations to the hospital come from? Where did the money to buy the lots and pay the property taxes come from.

I read a stat once without digging into it that each primary job, at a factor or mine for example creates 1/3 of a job in the service industry and so on. But the money the service industry guys get came from the primary production.
 

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