If a city was being designed from scratch, what would you like for it to have?

Feb 2014
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#61
An admirable goal, but entirely unrealistic. Altruism is fantasy and is currently being misused by college kids to avoid facing the challenges of the real world.:rolleyes:
You do realize we have democracy because people believed we could resolve all problems, right?
 
Feb 2014
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#62
Did anyone answer the question of what this planned city has for an economic base? You can not paint walls with urine proof paint if you don't have the money for the paint. Where is the town getting its money? What is the income for the community? Where does the town get its electricity and water? What are the town's resources and what must be imported?

If no one can answer these questions there can not be a discussion to prove if a Utopia is possible or impossible.
 
Nov 2017
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#63
An admirable goal, but entirely unrealistic. Altruism is fantasy and is currently being misused by college kids to avoid facing the challenges of the real world.:rolleyes:
You think it would need to rely on altruism? I think it would do the opposite! It would make us much less dependent on altruism than we ever have been; it would make it nearly or practically obsolete.
 
Feb 2014
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#64
Donations came from private citizens. Land was bought by investors and business owners. Example: Safeway--I love our Safeway store. When this community was built, Safeway (then owned by Merrill Lynch-I think) was recruited by Del Webb Corp and built their store in our downtown area. The same was true of Wells-Fargo, Chase and other banks and restaurants, also businesses like True Value and Ace Hardware.
Clara, no community has money unless it has something to sell to the world outside of the community. Perhaps it sold land to people who moved in? We can work with that.

How many plots of land do you have and what do they cost? Think of this as math problem for fourth graders. It is an imaginary town. Give me a number of the plots and a number for cost, and when we know how much money we have to work with, we can talk about spending it.
 
Feb 2014
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#65
You think it would need to rely on altruism? I think it would do the opposite! It would make us much less dependent on altruism than we ever have been; it would make it nearly or practically obsolete.
You wouldn't mean figuring things out has something to do with reasoning, would you? We all need to become more mathematically minded so we can have this discussion. What do we have to work with? How much land? What are the resources? What is the size of the population that live within these limits?
 
Feb 2014
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#66
I would like a constitution that would limit the tax rate that a city could charge for real estate.
Taxing land that is used for homes maybe something we should give up along with income taxes that workers must pay. It may have made sense to tax land when it was the only source of income people had. However, historically the rich have been privileged and exempt from taxes, putting the burden of taxes on the laborers, the peasant farmers. I think England was the first country to come up with a better system at the beginning of the industrial age, but the industrial age created more desperate poverty than wealth, so I think we could say it failed?
It is amusing that people accept life as it is instead of realizing we can change the way we do things.

Most money is made today with machines and computers, not a plow and a small field. Isn't it time update our tax system for our technological society?
 
Feb 2014
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#67
A university and research center. One that is affordable enough that seniors that always wanted degrees are right along side the eager young faces of the typical college students.
The Older American's Act entitles senior citizens to education. The catch is we are auditing the class and should not speak out and we do not get credit unless we pay for the classes like everyone else, and of course, if a class is full we can not audit it. I do not take advantage of this free education because I choose not to keep my mouth shut when a professor is saying things that are wrong or just should not be said. When I was young, I didn't have the courage to speak up, but today I am afraid I would end up being escorted out of the building by security people carrying guns.

I just spent 1/2 hour looking for a list of Older American entitlements and could not find an explanation that explains free college classes. If you are interested in the free education for seniors check your local college.
 
Feb 2014
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#69
That's the what, the why is very obvious but do they delve into the how?
I have mixed feelings about the Venus project. First off I do not trust leaving our decisions to computers and the Venus Project is dependent on centralized decision making made with a computer. However, that is not all bad. Computers are better able to deal with much more information than the human brain can hold and the most rational decisions are based on information. But I don't think all rational decisions serve us equally. If we have to leave a ship and survive in a life boat for 5 people, but 8 people need a place in the life boat, rationally 3 of those people do not get a seat in the life boat. At this point, I want some human decisions. I think those in authority in Nazi Germany made rational decisions and I do not like them. I want to retain the final say about what happens to me and my family.

Anyway here is an explanation of problems with the Venus Project.

The Venus Project - RationalWiki
 
Nov 2017
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#70
Did anyone answer the question of what this planned city has for an economic base? You can not paint walls with urine proof paint if you don't have the money for the paint. Where is the town getting its money? What is the income for the community? Where does the town get its electricity and water? What are the town's resources and what must be imported?

If no one can answer these questions there can not be a discussion to prove if a Utopia is possible or impossible.
I think plenty has been done to address these questions; the answers are out there - I've seen them and even come up with some of my own. The idea isn't necessarily to create a utopia, but you could say that it is to work closer and closer towards it, over time. The idea, the way I see it, is to simply rely on technical solutions to society's problems, rather than on politics. Politics doesn't necessarily offer the best solutions, or even any solution at all. Sometimes the solutions only sweep the problems under the rug & don't do anything to eliminate them at their core. Sometimes it even takes something that isn't even a problem in the first place and turns it into one, or causes one to be created out of it.

Look at how we have prisons full of prisoners, as an example; that's an example of sweeping the problem under the rug; round up the criminals and lock them away, rather than find out why they're committing crimes and solving the problem by eliminating the cause at the source. We have victimless crime laws, such as smoking a doobie; I don't smoke pot or tobacco; I don't even vape (I had asthma as a child and I guess that made me weary of the idea of inhaling smoke, etc.), but I still think it's ridiculous that we have turned some of that into a crime (or we impose punitive taxes on it), which creates a black market that in turn produces an environment where people are victimized.

Get rid of all marijuana laws and you get rid of the black market; when you get rid of the black market for it, you get rid of the victim within that black market. Boom - there's an example of addressing something at the root. I don't even know why marijuana is illegal to begin with, but my guess is that it stems from religious asshats just like it did with alcohol prohibition. Look at what a crime disaster it was with alcohol (Al Capone & what not) that no longer exists today, when it comes to alcohol, but still exists with other recreational substances.

BTW religion, there's something else that the more I think of it, the more it seems like something that's no good for anything other than to cause problems. Just take one look at the Middle East; it's even affecting our own government here in the US with this nonsense of moving an embassy to Jerusalem when it's perfectly fine where it has been located.

Anyways, in general, we can do the same with other things, such as setting up more restrooms where needed so no one is using a wall for a urinal.

Regarding your economic base question, what kind of answer do you want? Do you want some sort of prediction on exactly who, how, or where the funding will come from, or what? How does any city, anywhere, ever get any funding for anything? This is something that's already done. How did Las Vegas become what it is now, from the empty desert that it was only about a century ago? Or, are you just wondering what sort of industries it'll have that generate revenue? Either way, do you think it's important to have an answer ahead of time? Maybe to some degree it is, and I can get into that I suppose, but in general it can't be impossible, because we've seen towns & cities grow out of nowhere.

Even if it's a place where people live to commute to wherever they go to work, such as in the area where I live. I live 1/2 hr south of DC, and many people commute from as far as 2 hrs south to work in DC every week day. Las Vegas exists because it's nothing more than a "playground", where there's gambling, shows, and other forms of entertainment. The desert isn't only used to create "playgrounds", it's also used to create factories, such as Tesla's gigafactory.

From what I understand, Disney World was originally meant to be a futuristic city, and it turned into a "playground" (in some ways similar to Las Vegas, in other ways not so similar LOL). This blank slate city idea I have in mind would be a little more modest and not nearly as ambitious as what Walt Disney originally had in mind for it, and I have ideas for what can be produced or provided from this city.

I would like for this blank slate city to have plenty of entertainment and recreational facilities. There would be stadiums & other venues for sports events (football, soccer, baseball, basketball, hockey), live concerts, consumer shows, political events, etc. I think having an amusement park would be nice; once there are people living in this city, Six Flags or its competitors might want to bid for the space allocated for such a facility (and that would be an example of where some of the revenue could come from). I'd like for it to have plenty of recreational parks as well; they'd have pools, baseball fields, soccer fields, picnic areas, hiking trails, ponds, etc. Whatever it is, whether it's movie theaters, an opera house, stadiums, or an amusement park, investors will see an opportunity to fund and profit.

Same with the essentials, such as hotels, restaurants, gas stations, supermarkets, shopping centers, malls, etc. Marriott, Hilton, Best Western, and all those other businesses that run hotels will come in and build hotels as the demand for a place to crash arises. Wendy's, McDonalds, Olive Garden, Outback Steakhouse, Golden Corral, Burger King, Popeye's, and all those other businesses that run restaurants will come in and build restaurants as people get hungrier.

It could have colleges, universities, technical schools, and other post high school educational & training facilities. Of course it would also have preschools, K-12, hospitals, dentists offices, etc. Doctors, dentists, lawyers, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, mechanics, etc. etc. will all come in and set up shop.

Whatever industries produce goods might move in to set up their facilities there, if the price is right and conditions are ideal. If a city is designed and set up to run smoothly and more efficiently, this would appeal to them & that's one way revenue can be brought in.

Anyways, at first there won't be much there & it'll take time to build it up into a facility, so at first it'll probably just start off as 1 or 2 small & simple towns, then it'll grow to more towns, then it'll get larger & larger. In the mean time, while it's just 1 or 2 small towns & let's suppose some cheap desert was chosen for this blank slate city, the water can simply be trucked in. Later, when train tracks are laid and the demand for water increases, water can be delivered by train. Further down the road, maybe water pipelines can be set up. Bringing in electricity is no problem; large amounts of energy can be delivered very long distances with high voltage power lines.

Let me know if this answers the question or gets the point across or not, or if there's something specific you're still wondering or unsure about, and I'll try to address it. The only other thing I can think of at the moment is that it would still have government services, police, restaurant inspectors, mail delivery services, water treatment & sewer systems, highway maintenance, etc. The idea isn't to create a separate sovereign city state, only a blank slate that is subject to the state or country it's set up in. For example, if it were somewhere in Wyoming, then it would still be subject to the laws of Wyoming.
 

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