If this is true, why should we let the left take our guns?

Mar 2018
1,223
213
Grayson
#82


L.A. gangs stockpile untraceable 'ghost guns' that members make themselves


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Redirect Notice
Who is responsible for gangs taking over LA? Is it stupid rednecks 2000 miles away? Could be that "redneck" who thinks the wall is counterproductive to resolving the immigration debacle.

It's not the left. Clara007 said so. So, who, in the left, would advocate such a thing as disarming the citizenry? It wasn't Bernie Sanders. The RW idiots called that guy a socialist and he's a God fearing, AR toting, CCW carrying patriot who advocates that every American should, as our forefathers advocated, be armed at all times.
 
Mar 2013
10,020
10,805
Middle Tennessee
#83
For eight years all we heard from the NRA was how Obama was going to take our guns. I read one article (my father have a membership) where the writer was saying the "PROOF" Obama was going to do this in his second term, was the fact he didn't do it in his first term !!!

Now all these chicken little never once explained HOW this massive gun grab was going to work !!! Even though the Democrats had control of congress for two years, there are a lot of red state dems that can't ever vote for serious gun control lest they get booted. There are more than a few pro second democrats there. I'm one. Pro-choice, pro-gun get over it. I want married gay people to use their guns to protect their pot farms !! LOLOL

My point being, congress was NOT about to pass any sweeping gun legislation even with the dems in control. The truth is, while they were attached to other non-gun related bills, Obama did sign legislation EXPANDING gun owner rights (amtrack and national parks).

Obama couldn't do it by himself. Any Executive Order to that effect would have been instantly challenged in court, a stay would have been applied, and probably eventually the EO would be tossed.

The other thing they never explain is how it would all take place ?? How are we going to round up 300 MILLION weapons ?? It would be all to easy for me to travel to the country, take my stash of weapons and bury them. Wait a few months or a couple years and presto my poor collection currently worth a couple thousand, at best, would now be worth $10 grand or more. Do you think I'd be the only one ?? Drugs are illegal. In a good year we stop less than two percent of the drugs flowing into this country. Prohibition failed so miserably we repealed the amendment in what ?? just 13 years ?? Does anyone think we'd do any better against guns ??

On the flip side I think we need some restrictions. We've had two mass shootings here in the Nashville area. One of them, the Waffle House shooter was a KNOWN mental defective. Illinois HAD red flagged his ass and taken his guns. Sadly they gave him to his father for safe keeping and that moron gave them back to his seriously fucked up kid. Tennessee doesn't have red flag laws. At the time of the Parkland shooting, Florida didn't either. Something like 30 reports to both local police and the FBI and he still LEGALLY bought that AR and blasted the school with it. I think ever state needs red flag laws. I'm sorry we really need to at least try to keep guns away from the crazies !!!

Other thoughts and these are my personal thoughts. No one NEEDS a thirty round magazine !!! Especially on a semi-auto !!! Personally I think anything that's truly high velocity should be either bolt action or have very limited magazines, say 6 rounds. This is the problem with the semi automatic weapons with high capacity mags. If I shoot you in the arm with my .38 or even my .45, it puts hole in your arm. It might break the bone if the hits it. With the high velocity rounds it doesn't just make a hole and break the bone. It rips the arm off !!! The shock of the impact does massive damage. One of the ER docs in Florida said the school shooting wounds were just like what he had treated in the ME as a combat medic. Yes, Yes, I know a lot of hunting rifles, my own included shoot at very high velocities. So my compromise it this, you want a 15, 20 or 30 round magazine, fine, no problem, you have to put it on a bolt action rifle. You want semi-auto ?? then you get 6 or 8 rounds.

But of course even these modest suggestions will be met with outrage by the NRA supporters, so we can,t even discuss them can we ?
 
Nov 2012
41,006
11,805
Lebanon, TN
#85
Ok you are making basically no sense so I am not going to talk to you.
one armed Cop hid outside while Students were being shot in Florida... Too Bad the Coach did not have a gun
Cops Stood outside at VA Tech while students were being Shot... too bad the Jewish professor that barred the door did not have a gun
Video showed Police waiting outside while students were being shot at Columbine. too bad the shop teacher did not have a gun
Too bad the teacher that got within arms reach of the Sandy Hook shooter did not have a gun. (that case not one single child would have died)

Lucky for students in Boone, NC 2 students DID have guns, they stopped the shooter and did not have to fire a shot. Just confronted him
Lucky for Students in Pearl MS The principle had a Gun in his Car... he stopped the shooter and did not have to fire a shot, just confronted him

First line of defense is SELF. that is why the 2nd amendment is the ONLY CIVIL RIGHT that says The Right of the people to keep (own) and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The Right to self defense by all means necessary is the only right that should not ever by denied.
 
Mar 2018
1,223
213
Grayson
#86
For eight years all we heard from the NRA was how Obama was going to take our guns. I read one article (my father have a membership) where the writer was saying the "PROOF" Obama was going to do this in his second term, was the fact he didn't do it in his first term !!!

Now all these chicken little never once explained HOW this massive gun grab was going to work !!! Even though the Democrats had control of congress for two years, there are a lot of red state dems that can't ever vote for serious gun control lest they get booted. There are more than a few pro second democrats there. I'm one. Pro-choice, pro-gun get over it. I want married gay people to use their guns to protect their pot farms !! LOLOL

My point being, congress was NOT about to pass any sweeping gun legislation even with the dems in control. The truth is, while they were attached to other non-gun related bills, Obama did sign legislation EXPANDING gun owner rights (amtrack and national parks).

Obama couldn't do it by himself. Any Executive Order to that effect would have been instantly challenged in court, a stay would have been applied, and probably eventually the EO would be tossed.

The other thing they never explain is how it would all take place ?? How are we going to round up 300 MILLION weapons ?? It would be all to easy for me to travel to the country, take my stash of weapons and bury them. Wait a few months or a couple years and presto my poor collection currently worth a couple thousand, at best, would now be worth $10 grand or more. Do you think I'd be the only one ?? Drugs are illegal. In a good year we stop less than two percent of the drugs flowing into this country. Prohibition failed so miserably we repealed the amendment in what ?? just 13 years ?? Does anyone think we'd do any better against guns ??

On the flip side I think we need some restrictions. We've had two mass shootings here in the Nashville area. One of them, the Waffle House shooter was a KNOWN mental defective. Illinois HAD red flagged his ass and taken his guns. Sadly they gave him to his father for safe keeping and that moron gave them back to his seriously fucked up kid. Tennessee doesn't have red flag laws. At the time of the Parkland shooting, Florida didn't either. Something like 30 reports to both local police and the FBI and he still LEGALLY bought that AR and blasted the school with it. I think ever state needs red flag laws. I'm sorry we really need to at least try to keep guns away from the crazies !!!

Other thoughts and these are my personal thoughts. No one NEEDS a thirty round magazine !!! Especially on a semi-auto !!! Personally I think anything that's truly high velocity should be either bolt action or have very limited magazines, say 6 rounds. This is the problem with the semi automatic weapons with high capacity mags. If I shoot you in the arm with my .38 or even my .45, it puts hole in your arm. It might break the bone if the hits it. With the high velocity rounds it doesn't just make a hole and break the bone. It rips the arm off !!! The shock of the impact does massive damage. One of the ER docs in Florida said the school shooting wounds were just like what he had treated in the ME as a combat medic. Yes, Yes, I know a lot of hunting rifles, my own included shoot at very high velocities. So my compromise it this, you want a 15, 20 or 30 round magazine, fine, no problem, you have to put it on a bolt action rifle. You want semi-auto ?? then you get 6 or 8 rounds.

But of course even these modest suggestions will be met with outrage by the NRA supporters, so we can,t even discuss them can we ?
Let's get away from the NRA for a moment. Sometimes I cannot resist it and chide the NRA clowns at gun shows. The NRA is a toothless tiger and they do not speak for me. Neither do they make the arguments I make.

I came on this board and offered to virtually eliminate mass shootings without gun control. The liberals here did not want to participate in the conversation. Now, you're talking about Red Flag Laws where they basically say screw the Constitution, and like Trump advocates, take the guns now - due process later.

I'm glad that in the balance of my lifetime people will always have semi-automatic weapons and 30 round magazines. Here is a scenario that played out in real life IN MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD proving that what you try to sell is pure, unadulterated and unworkable B.S.:

Video shows woman firing several shots at home intruders

It's dark; there are multiple bad guys; the victim had 15 rounds and was under stress. Gun fights don't go down as you try to make us believe. Then again, you don't get to tell me what you think I need. You don't get to tell me the value of my life. I realize that I cannot do my part to insure the security of a free state with people like you trying to put limitations on my ability to do so. If you cared so much about human life, you would look for alternative ways (like I did) to reduce gun violence without gun control.

The reality is, and always will be, those wanting to restrict the Second Amendment are not about saving lives. That's why they refuse to entertain any solution that does not include control. For whatever reason they are only about control. Today, thousands, if not millions, of people know how to build their own weapons, magazines, and recycle ammunition. You will fail at control. At least you're going to fail until every last descendant of the founders is dead and / or their DNA integrated into the gene pool of third worlders. This country was founded on a revolution against tyranny and oppression. It's unlike any nation in existence today. But, I am about reducing gun violence without gun control. Nobody is interested because the uninformed feel safe, thinking Trump is pro - gun (he is not) and the left won't listen because they are only about control. Nobody cares about the victims of mass shootings unless it's a family member or loved one killed - and then it's too late to suggest a prevention solution. So, cry me a river. Neither side will take all the guns. They may kill some of those who resist, but if those people die, the left or right did not end up controlling them.

A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of a higher obligation. … To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.

Thomas Jefferson, to John B. Colvin, September 20, 1810
 
Mar 2013
10,020
10,805
Middle Tennessee
#87
Let's get away from the NRA for a moment. Sometimes I cannot resist it and chide the NRA clowns at gun shows. The NRA is a toothless tiger and they do not speak for me. Neither do they make the arguments I make.

I came on this board and offered to virtually eliminate mass shootings without gun control. The liberals here did not want to participate in the conversation. Now, you're talking about Red Flag Laws where they basically say screw the Constitution, and like Trump advocates, take the guns now - due process later.
my bold

OOOHHH excuse the fuck outa me !!! I NEVER said anything about doing away with due process !!!! OHHH NO NO NO NO that's the screaming fear mongering rebuttal we usually hear from the NRA !!! No sir !! There HAS to be, and MUST be due process. The PROBLEM is many states DO NOT HAVE the required laws to create the process !! The Florida shooter is a prime example. He was a highly troubled young man. Something like 30 calls to police and the FBI. Some on this very board (not the liberals either) have BLAMED the FBI for their lack of action. However, Florida had no legal mechanism under which law enforcement or anyone else could challenge this persons competency. He shouldn't have been able to buy a pop gun, much less an AR. But he was able to walk into a store and legally make his purchase.

And again, right here in Nashville, the Waffle House shooter HAD BEEN THROUGH his due process and been judged a danger. His weapons had been removed by the court. But he moves to Tennessee and his father (who rightfully should be charged with murder) returned the weapons to his mentally unstable son. HOW do we stop that !!!! ???? !!!!!

I'm glad that in the balance of my lifetime people will always have semi-automatic weapons and 30 round magazines. Here is a scenario that played out in real life IN MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD proving that what you try to sell is pure, unadulterated and unworkable B.S.:

Video shows woman firing several shots at home intruders

It's dark; there are multiple bad guys; the victim had 15 rounds and was under stress. Gun fights don't go down as you try to make us believe. Then again, you don't get to tell me what you think I need. You don't get to tell me the value of my life. I realize that I cannot do my part to insure the security of a free state with people like you trying to put limitations on my ability to do so. If you cared so much about human life, you would look for alternative ways (like I did) to reduce gun violence without gun control.

The reality is, and always will be, those wanting to restrict the Second Amendment are not about saving lives. That's why they refuse to entertain any solution that does not include control. For whatever reason they are only about control. Today, thousands, if not millions, of people know how to build their own weapons, magazines, and recycle ammunition. You will fail at control. At least you're going to fail until every last descendant of the founders is dead and / or their DNA integrated into the gene pool of third worlders. This country was founded on a revolution against tyranny and oppression. It's unlike any nation in existence today. But, I am about reducing gun violence without gun control. Nobody is interested because the uninformed feel safe, thinking Trump is pro - gun (he is not) and the left won't listen because they are only about control. Nobody cares about the victims of mass shootings unless it's a family member or loved one killed - and then it's too late to suggest a prevention solution. So, cry me a river. Neither side will take all the guns. They may kill some of those who resist, but if those people die, the left or right did not end up controlling them.

A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of a higher obligation. … To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.

Thomas Jefferson, to John B. Colvin, September 20, 1810
So what is this magnificent proposal you have for curbing gun violence ?? Please enlighten us on how to keep criminals from building their own guns ?? Explain how we keep people from shooting up schools and churches ?? And how would your proposals have prevented the very situation in that video ??

BTW, I like your video, and frankly good for her !! But I find it interesting you posted a video of someone using a hand gun in response to my comments concerning high velocity weapons with high capacity magazines ?? Especially at one point where she was shooting blindly and indiscriminately out the front door !!!! Can you imagine if she had had another dozen or so rounds in a truly high velocity semi-auto weapon ?? How many holes would she have put in surrounding homes ?? Who might have been hit by her indiscriminate fire ?? She was obviously panicked and in that situation even professionals have a hard time remembering to look behind their targets and see what's down range. I don't know about Georgia, but my gun safety instructor made it pretty damned clear you can't shoot them in the back as they are running away and intent follows the bullet !! Hit someone behind your target and you go to jail. She's lucky she didn't hit an innocent person. Which gets back to my point. The hand gun was dangerous enough at that point, still able to go through windows and soft sidings on a house. But an AR or similar could have done some real damage to neighboring houses.
 
Last edited:
Mar 2018
1,223
213
Grayson
#88
my bold

OOOHHH excuse the fuck outa me !!! I NEVER said anything about doing away with due process !!!! OHHH NO NO NO NO that's the screaming fear mongering rebuttal we usually hear from the NRA !!! No sir !! There HAS to be, and MUST be due process. The PROBLEM is many states DO NOT HAVE the required laws to create the process !! The Florida shooter is a prime example. He was a highly troubled young man. Something like 30 calls to police and the FBI. Some on this very board (not the liberals either) have BLAMED the FBI for their lack of action. However, Florida had no legal mechanism under which law enforcement or anyone else could challenge this persons competency. He shouldn't have been able to buy a pop gun, much less an AR. But he was able to walk into a store and legally make his purchase.

And again, right here in Nashville, the Waffle House shooter HAD BEEN THROUGH his due process and been judged a danger. His weapons had been removed by the court. But he moves to Tennessee and his father (who rightfully should be charged with murder) returned the weapons to his mentally unstable son. HOW do we stop that !!!! ???? !!!!!



So what is this magnificent proposal you have for curbing gun violence ?? Please enlighten us on how to keep criminals from building their own guns ?? Explain how we keep people from shooting up schools and churches ?? And how would your proposals have prevented the very situation in that video ??

BTW, I like your video, and frankly good for her !! But I find it interesting you posted a video of someone using a hand gun in response to my comments concerning high velocity weapons with high capacity magazines ?? Especially at one point where she was shooting blindly and indiscriminately out the front door !!!! Can you imagine if she had had another dozen or so rounds in a truly high velocity semi-auto weapon ?? How many holes would she have put in surrounding homes ?? Who might have been hit by her indiscriminate fire ?? She was obviously panicked and in that situation even professionals have a hard time remembering to look behind their targets and see what's down range. I don't know about Georgia, but my gun safety instructor made it pretty damned clear you can't shoot them in the back as they are running away and intent follows the bullet !! Hit someone behind your target and you go to jail. She's lucky she didn't hit an innocent person. Which gets back to my point. The hand gun was dangerous enough at that point, still able to go through windows and soft sidings on a house. But an AR or similar could have done some real damage to neighboring houses.
Dude, no insult intended, just an observation: you sound like someone on drugs. So much to respond to, so let me work from the top, down:

1) I didn't say "you" said a thing about due process. I said the left does... and they parrot the sentiments of Donald Trump who DID say take the guns and due process later

2) To my knowledge NO state has the process in place that would identify and deal with people BEFORE they became a problem

3) I did an entire thread on how to identify and deal with the people who may pose a danger. Where the Hell were you? My suggestions are the result of several decades of dealing with the issue first hand. For most that are into mental midgetry is was TLDR

How do we reduce the number of mass shootings?

My most relevant posts on that thread are post numbers 1, 10, 22, 36, 37, 39, 67, 81, 133, and 163. I discuss why the problem exists, how to identify those who WILL commit an act of violence during their life-time, a basic idea of how to intervene and what to do from a civil perspective... Due Process first, no criminal action required. We can determine if the child is the problem or the adults; we can get parents to cooperate OR remove the child from the home. We go from a culture that drugs children to one that makes drugs the last option

4) You cannot keep people from being able to build their own weapons unless you intend to have a nation of complete idiots; that should NOT be the goal anyway, but as I keep saying, the left is about control, not reducing gun violence

5) You cannot stop situations like what happened in the video. That is why the people have the Right to keep and bear Arms

6) You obviously don't know much about firearms. That lady used a 9mm with a 15 shot magazine. That is the same caliber that the Uzi machine gun and the H&K MP 5 machine gun use. Furthermore, ANY weapon that shoots semi - automatic is capable of taking a 30 round magazine. I've seen pump shotguns with 20 round magazines. So, if it will take a magazine, it will take a high capacity magazine and any "redneck" can cobble one together. It ain't rocket science

7) You're all over the map with your desperate and illogical response. First, you make much ado that this was a handgun and it's not a "high velocity weapon" and then you accuse her of firing indiscriminately, endangering people in nearby houses. So, which is it? At night, it's not like you can see the sights; she sure as Hell had no idea whether there were 1 or 3 or maybe 5 or more people there to do her harm. She aimed her pistol at their bodies and defended herself.

Guns are not inherently dangerous. People are. In a free society, if you do not regulate society and get the dangerous people off the street AND get them the appropriate help they need, they are dangerous with or without a gun.

The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people...that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” Thomas Jefferson
 
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Feb 2019
1,248
541
nunya
#89
Actually, the American flag was far more racist than the Confederate flag was. Slavery was the law of the land under the American flag for 87 years. And a century of Jim Crow laws existed under the American flag. Tens of thousands of blacks died in Union concentration camps. Those victims never experienced freedom.

Washington didn't lead the free world. He created and led a slave nation that kept people in chains all of their lives. He was such a crook that he rotated his slaves around various places so they he wouldn't have to pay taxes on them.
Not really correct. The confederate flag represents one thing and one thing only. Slavery. They split from the U.S.A for the right to keep slaves. Though the American flag waved while slavery was still allowed, confederates stood for slavery and only slavery. While the Americans stood for tolerance, democracy and the right to choose. If you really want to judge our nations greatest leaders by their worst acts thats fine. But do not mistake what the confederate flag represents and what confederates stood for.
 
Feb 2019
1,248
541
nunya
#90
Bernie Sanders

No, really dude. I was a teen once looking to find out about politics. I was in the library and read several party platforms. When I read what Jimmy Carter believed, it looked familiar. Retracing my steps, he sounded just like the socialists. What redneck friends do I have? You do know the right hates me as much as you do?

You're both going to the same place. You're just taking different roads to get there.
Notice how he says here that he does not support socialism like that in soviet russia.

Seriously LTP, you soak up so much conservative propaganda that all the conspiracy sites you probably look at lie to you about the position of democrats on socialism. In the narrowest margins and the most extreme example of democrats you can see whisps of socialism, but that's really not the case. Classic NRA fear propaganda for rednecks.

If the right hates you as much as I do then I would have to agree with the redneck right for once.