Is a deadline a good thing?

Should we set a deadline to pull our troops out of Iraq?

  • Yes, let the public know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, but keep it classified

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, it's too dangerous

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

tadpole256

Former Staff
May 2005
14,314
54
Planet Earth (Mostly)
#31
prescott911 said:
[quote name='onlyoneplanet']What Americans don't seem to understand about guerillas is that throughout a conflict of any length, they know that we have to go home sometime. That's what keeps them from scampering away with their tails between their legs (not meant in any sort of racist--or speciesist--context).



They'll keep us there until we give up or die trying; that's what happened with the Viet Cong during the war in Vietname, that's what happened with Aguinaldo and the Filipino guerillas (and say, didn't it happen in colonial America too?), that's just the history of guerilla warfare.



If you ask me, it doesn't matter if we claim victory or we don't. What will determine when America's troops come home is whether or not Bush is man enough to say we fucked up on this one.



You can play big bad police man and boss some poor lowlifes around and shoot rockets into some doors & windows, but that won't save you from roadside bombs and guerilla ambushes. Once the Iraqis start fighting on our terms--that is when we'll be making some sure progress in their territory; but of course, you shouldn't count on that.


One thing we do seem to understand is that they like us have to give up sometime as well what we are trying to do is wait them out of the situation. If we give up now think of what will happen to all the Iraqis. Tell me what you think they would do with out us doing our best to keep the insurgents off of their streets (even though right now our best isnt good enough). the insurgents arent just killing our troops they are also killing several innocent Iraqis, you have seen the headlines. The Iraqi people want us to stay as long as it takes to get rid of the suicide bombers.[/quote]



I don't think you get it my friend. If we leave, the insurgents will go away. The insurgents want us gone first and foremost. The next thing that will happen is their current "government" which was "elected" (translated as: installed by the U.S.), will collapse, and some other government will rise to power. Could be a good one, could be a bad one, but one thing is for certain, it'll be one we can not control, which is the only REAL reason we are fightinh in Iraq, to maintain control of it.
 

tadpole256

Former Staff
May 2005
14,314
54
Planet Earth (Mostly)
#32
criticalprocess said:
[quote name='prescott911']



One thing we do seem to understand is that they like us have to give up sometime as well what we are trying to do is wait them out of the situation. If we give up now think of what will happen to all the Iraqis. Tell me what you think they would do with out us doing our best to keep the insurgents off of their streets (even though right now our best isnt good enough). the insurgents arent just killing our troops they are also killing several innocent Iraqis, you have seen the headlines. The Iraqi people want us to stay as long as it takes to get rid of the suicide bombers.


These "insurgents" aren't the only ones killing Iraqi civilians, current estimates say that OUR invasion has claimed the lives of between 22000-25000 civilians. I don't believe anyone could say that the insurgents have killed more civilians than we have.[/quote]



The U.S. Administration doesn't care about the civilians anyway. The troops overthere may, and that may provide some nice photos for the administration, but the fact of the matter is that our government could care less about the Iraqi people.
 
Jun 2005
579
1
USA
#33
tadpole256 said:
I don't think you get it my friend. If we leave, the insurgents will go away. The insurgents want us gone first and foremost. The next thing that will happen is their current "government" which was "elected" (translated as: installed by the U.S.), will collapse, and some other government will rise to power. Could be a good one, could be a bad one, but one thing is for certain, it'll be one we can not control, which is the only REAL reason we are fightinh in Iraq, to maintain control of it.




Hell yeah. Well spoken.
 

tadpole256

Former Staff
May 2005
14,314
54
Planet Earth (Mostly)
#34
onlyoneplanet said:
[quote name='prescott911'][quote name='onlyoneplanet']What Americans don't seem to understand about guerillas is that throughout a conflict of any length, they know that we have to go home sometime. That's what keeps them from scampering away with their tails between their legs (not meant in any sort of racist--or speciesist--context).



They'll keep us there until we give up or die trying; that's what happened with the Viet Cong during the war in Vietname, that's what happened with Aguinaldo and the Filipino guerillas (and say, didn't it happen in colonial America too?), that's just the history of guerilla warfare.



If you ask me, it doesn't matter if we claim victory or we don't. What will determine when America's troops come home is whether or not Bush is man enough to say we fucked up on this one.



You can play big bad police man and boss some poor lowlifes around and shoot rockets into some doors & windows, but that won't save you from roadside bombs and guerilla ambushes. Once the Iraqis start fighting on our terms--that is when we'll be making some sure progress in their territory; but of course, you shouldn't count on that.


One thing we do seem to understand is that they like us have to give up sometime as well what we are trying to do is wait them out of the situation. If we give up now think of what will happen to all the Iraqis. Tell me what you think they would do with out us doing our best to keep the insurgents off of their streets (even though right now our best isnt good enough). the insurgents arent just killing our troops they are also killing several innocent Iraqis, you have seen the headlines. The Iraqi people want us to stay as long as it takes to get rid of the suicide bombers.[/quote]



I'm aware of the consequences they would have to face, should America end up pulling it's troops out too soon. But also realize that the insurgency is fighting for Iraq for the Iraqis, meaning they're not just going to slaughter thousands of innocents for some cryptic cause. Iraq is a disaster with the US troops there or not; but America's quest for a democratic Iraq has become an obligation, despite the widespread disapproval of the war, so I guess we're there to stay for a while... Can't change that.



There's the half that begs the US to stay so they can continue to progress into a Western-influenced country, which--without a doubt--is definately an easier life. Then there's the half that just wants us out so they may organize on their own without the help of the US and it's corrosive effect on culture and it's destructively productive nature.



What do I think they would do without America's help? Frankly, I think they'll they'll wallow in their ruin. But aren't many doing that already? This whole conflict was a mess from when it was first announced. I'm not saying Saddam was a good leader, or a fair leader at that; he was a tyrant. But that doesn't fully justify what has happened to Iraq over the past four years--neither does the oil for your car, neither do the WMDs which were never found, and neither does the ridiculous amount of money spent to get where we are now (by the way, where are we now?). But maybe the schools and running water and electricity do, but in my eyes, the good outweighs the bad.



You can't always (or ever, really) count on the headlines to be helpful, it's just a tool that demonizes the insurgency or glorifies the US' occupation.[/quote]



I could not agree more. Exceedingly well put sir.
 

Similar Discussions