Is Anybody Else Sick to Death of Hearing Democrats Gripe About the Choice Between Two Old White Men?!

Dec 2018
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Indiana
Florida has 29 electoral votes:

U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Orlando has endorsed Joe Biden for president. Could Biden pick her as his running mate?
Florida, despite its electoral importance, has never produced a running mate for a major party presidential ticket. But with razor-thin margins in seemingly every major statewide election, the temptation to swing the state with a homegrown favorite could prove hard to resist. ...


 
Dec 2015
21,288
22,316
Arizona
Florida has 29 electoral votes:

U.S. Rep. Val Demings of Orlando has endorsed Joe Biden for president. Could Biden pick her as his running mate?
Florida, despite its electoral importance, has never produced a running mate for a major party presidential ticket. But with razor-thin margins in seemingly every major statewide election, the temptation to swing the state with a homegrown favorite could prove hard to resist. ...


She would be great!
 
Jan 2015
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Gordy, I don't think Yang did - I don't think Corey Booker did - I don't think Amy Klobachar did.

I really don't think Yang had a chance - but he was a helluva good man with excellent ideas and solutions and vision.
They didn't necessarily but the folks who primarily did didn't get very far.

I have a difficult time with identity politics right now. On one hand, like everybody with more than two firing brain cells, I'm sick to death of the whole concept of identity politics. On the other hand, I know that we STILL have a huge inequality problem in our nation, and identity politics is the only way we're going to get it - somehow - corrected. So, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't engage in them.
We have an inequality problem (I'm Black of course I know this), however appealing to identity politics does ZIP to rectify this. It just builds more chasms and quite frankly turns ppl off. You can point out and solve the inequities that exist in our society without trying to appeal to identity. It's possible.
 
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Jan 2015
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That is a bunch of crap. ALL politics is identity politics and it's always BEEN identity politics. You want to target a certain vote, you identify with that voter. Whites, blacks, unions, Christians.
Ok, so then how is Trump a racist when he appeals to the White working class? You can't have it both ways Clara.

Give me an example of a candidate who DOES not/HAS formed exclusive political alliances. Which candidate has NOT prioritized the concerns of a particular ethnic, cultural, social subset? They are targets and STEP #1 of every ground-level campaign staff.
But how is this a good thing? Politics should appeal to the things we all have in common. Not only that, but in the real world, identity doesn't always necessarily determine one's politics.

You can be LGBT and still be a die-hard Trumpist.

You can be a socially conservative immigrant, and still vote Democrat.

Really, it all boils down to an individual's material needs.

AND I bet you can't guess who are the largest group of identity voters?
WHITE MEN.
Agreed.

AND why can't identity politics involve solutions? Why would you think for a minute those two elements can't be combined? Do you think Obama didn't thrive on identity AND solutions?
Because, in practice, it doesn't.
 
Dec 2015
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Arizona
Ok, so then how is Trump a racist when he appeals to the White working class? You can't have it both ways Clara.



But how is this a good thing? Politics should appeal to the things we all have in common. Not only that, but in the real world, identity doesn't always necessarily determine one's politics.

You can be LGBT and still be a die-hard Trumpist.

You can be a socially conservative immigrant, and still vote Democrat.

Really, it all boils down to an individual's material needs.



Agreed.



Because, in practice, it doesn't.
Whoa, dude! I did NOT say the candidate "WAS" the identity. I said the candidate FORMS alliances/takes on the mantel
of the candidates he/she is courting. Trump is a perfect example of "I understand your plight" "I empathize with your troubles--your anger--your circumstances" "AND I can fix all that."
Your question makes no sense "so how is Trump a racist when he appeals to the white working-class". White. Working. Class. The very same class who vehemently resents social programs---paying for the inner-city blacks on welfare---the classic welfare queen (thanks Ronnie!). The same WHITE folks who hate paying taxes. The same angry folks who think no one speaks for them--they've been forgotten and left behind? Don't ask me why those same folks BELIEVE Trump when he says he understands their lives. That is absurd.
Trump appeals to their basest fears and makes promises he can't possibly keep.

AND I didn't say identity politics is a good thing, either. My point is/was that it simply IS and always has been every candidate's goal---to connect in any way possible with voters of all stripes. Sure, there are exceptions--I suppose there are a few Republicans who CLAIM to support LGBTQ. I suppose there are some immigrants/Muslims/Blacks etc who voted for Trump and sure it boils down to an individual's needs & wants.
After all, Trump is the Messiah.
 
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Dec 2006
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We have an inequality problem (I'm Black of course I know this), however appealing to identity politics does ZIP to rectify this. It just builds more chasms and quite frankly turns ppl off. You can point out and solve the inequities that exist in our society without trying to appeal to identity. It's possible.
It's possible.
But just pointing out the problems doesn't solve them - we've been doing that for a hundred years, right?
I genuinely understand what you're saying - and you certainly feel these inequalities more intensely than I do - but I feel that anything that can be done should be tried. Certainly having President Obama elected helped immensely with the perception of the black man's abilities (to those who weren't already aware of the equality). President Obama did a lot of tremendously good things (and, granted, some bad - but that comes with the territory) - and that was definitely the result of identity politics. I don't believe that he would have been elected if he hadn't been a young, attractive, smart, quick-witted black man.
 
Jan 2015
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Whoa, dude! I did NOT say the candidate "WAS" the identity. I said the candidate FORMS alliances/takes on the mantel
of the candidates he/she is courting. Trump is a perfect example of "I understand your plight" "I empathize with your troubles--your anger--your circumstances" "AND I can fix all that."
Exactly. So what makes him unique?

Your question makes no sense "so how is Trump a racist when he appeals to the white working-class". White. Working. Class. The very same class who vehemently resents social programs---paying for the inner-city blacks on welfare---the classic welfare queen (thanks Ronnie!). The same WHITE folks who hate paying taxes. The same angry folks who think no one speaks for them--they've been forgotten and left behind? Don't ask me why those same folks BELIEVE Trump when he says he understands their lives. That is absurd.
There are definitely members of the White working class who are racist and chauvinistic, but I have met enough White folks who genuinely care about all of the issues this country faces (including racial inequality), and have been through worse things than I have, to believe that we don't have more in common than we think. In contrast, I've met more than enough LGBT folks, Black folks, women, etc. who are as reactionary and toxic as your average Trump supporter is -- people who I have nothing in common with outside of identity. Identity politics ignores these nuances and variations, and paints everyone with one broad brush. Identity politics just encourages tokenism and irrational tribalist thinking, and it terrifies me.

Trump appeals to their basest fears and makes promises he can't possibly keep.
I agree. From my observation, the establishment Dems do this with minorities as well.

AND I didn't say identity politics is a good thing, either. My point is/was that it simply IS and always has been every candidate's goal---to connect in any way possible with voters of all stripes.
The best way to do this is to appeal to the things that we all have in common. Identity politics isn't working. It's what led to Trump. Remember, Trump is a symptom of bigger problems.
 
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It's possible.
But just pointing out the problems doesn't solve them - we've been doing that for a hundred years, right?
I genuinely understand what you're saying - and you certainly feel these inequalities more intensely than I do - but I feel that anything that can be done should be tried. Certainly having President Obama elected helped immensely with the perception of the black man's abilities (to those who weren't already aware of the equality). President Obama did a lot of tremendously good things (and, granted, some bad - but that comes with the territory) - and that was definitely the result of identity politics. I don't believe that he would have been elected if he hadn't been a young, attractive, smart, quick-witted black man.
It's not about pointing out the problems. It's taking these issues and tying them into the greater issue of inequality that exists in this country. The racial income gap, the gender income gap, and the wealth gap are all different tentacles of the same octopus: Inequality.
 
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Jan 2015
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I couldn't give any less of a fuck if we share the same skin color/ethnicity.

What are you going to do for me?
 
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