Is Poverty in Black America More the Product of Racism or Culture?

Dec 2018
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I've brought this up before after realizing just what friends of mine go through on a regular basis. We like to think we have all moved past racism after the 60s, but we haven't as much as we might like to think we have. I have black friends who, if they are alone, will not walk on the same side of the street as a young white girl for fear of making her uncomfortable. They will fill their gas tanks full beforehand on long trips to avoid having to stop for gas in certain states. They will only go in certain retail stores if accompanied by white friends.

I asked why. They have all said, "it's not worth the risk if somebody decides they have it out for you, or want to blame their shit on someone else. You're a stranger and a black man- easy target and easy to blame for anything. One little thing goes wrong and you end up in jail for not doing anything."

That is disgusting that American citizens have to feel that cautious. The sad thing is, they're right. That is sadly, reality. Overcoming that kind of BS works for the extremely talented like say, Michael Jordan. It does not work for the average black guy. That's not just a hurdle, it's a massive wall that they have to deal with.

We have got to start acknowledging that this still goes on and then we have to start working to eradicate it.
Change doesn't happen in a day and it doesn't happen evenly. Yes, there's ugliness and you often don't have to look to hard to find it.

Yet in the span of half a century we went from institutionalized segregation to a point where an electorate that was 75% white voted a black man into the White House, twice. Is there another nation in the world where this dynamic -- a member of a historically oppressed minority is elected as leader by the historically oppressing majority -- anywhere else in the world, ever?

Racism is not particularly an American issue; it's a human failing, and I think an argument can be made that the US has dealt with it better than most, and possibly better than any nation ever has.
 

KnightOfSappho

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No, i mentioned earlier that how one is dressed plays a significant role.
Yet what I mentioned had NOTHING to do with how anyone was dressed but you decided that clothes must have been the deciding factor and not color. Why is that?
 

KnightOfSappho

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And here we gave an upsurge of racist propaganda being pushed by the media, attempting to create a new victim mentality. Coincidentally it is coming when generation of children are completely removed from any of that.

This is cultural Marxism
I don't think that this is an upsurge pushed by the media. It is the racism that does exist being forced into the cultural conversation. There has been a lot of 'racism doesn't exist' in that conversation for years and the conversation has never been completed or honestly, seriously taken up. What we are seeing now is just a side effect of that. This is a generation where a young studious black teen is told by the society that 25% of boys like him will end up in jail so it makes perfect sense that people should treat him like a criminal and that he is of little value. If a black girl has a baby young, neither she nor her child are worth the resources to educate or find her innate talents she is also valueless; this is the message she gets from society.

This is not an issue of the past; this is going on in the here and now. It's not really a surprise that there is anger and frustration boiling up.
 
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KnightOfSappho

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I don’t think anyone is saying that those with a headstart won’t go farther. Tutors, private schools, elite colleges, trust funds, etc. all propel those who have those opportunities (and also work hard) farther.

The question here is not can John Brown make the same $400k yearly salary as his similarly talented friend John White or merely $350k, it’s in 2018 can racism be overcome to a point where someone has a fair chance of being not poor (I know that wasn’t the gist of the video, but it is the gist of this thread).

I do find the “racisms exist therefore no other solutions make sense” logic I so often hear from the left to be, well, nonsensical. (I’m not saying this is your position; just making a general comment.)
Racism is only one ingredient in the soup. It is folly to ignore it and it is folly to insist that it is the only problem.

The problem isn't is JW and JB making 400k and 350k with different starting opportunities, it is often the difference between one making 350k and one making 27k because one did not have the opportunities to discover his best talents. This is often true because of economic starting point more than color and familial culture more than economic starting point. In my family, for example, we were not rich by any means but there was no question that I was going to college from about age four or five; it was as basic and expected as me finishing high school. Other kids in my neighborhood did not necessarily get those types of messages at home so their results were mixed, to say the least.

Can racism be overcome to the point you specified? Individually, yes. Culturally, not yet. I think that in another two generations that will happen. Concepts and ideas that are subtly passed grandparent/parent/child take time to weaken and wear away as a rule. I think that when my two grandsons are grandfathers this will have worn out of our culture enough to remove effect.
 
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Dec 2018
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New England
Racism is only one ingredient in the soup. It is folly to ignore it and it is folly to insist that it is the only problem.

The problem isn't is JW and JB making 400k and 350k with different starting opportunities, it is often the difference between one making 350k and one making 27k because one did not have the opportunities to discover his best talents. This is often true because of economic starting point more than color and familial culture more than economic starting point. In my family, for example, we were not rich by any means but there was no question that I was going to college from about age four or five; it was as basic and expected as me finishing high school. Other kids in my neighborhood did not necessarily get those types of messages at home so their results were mixed, to say the least.

Can racism be overcome to the point you specified? Individually, yes. Culturally, not yet. I think that in another two generations that will happen. Concepts and ideas that are subtly passed grandparent/parent/child take time to weaken and wear away as a rule. I think that when my two grandsons are grandfathers this will have worn out of our culture enough to remove effect.
You’re missing a key point. As individuals there is little we can do to change the racist thoughts of others. But we are in complete control of the values that drive the decisions we make. So it’s not a question of whether to ignore racism or not, it’s more about getting the individual to understand much is possible even in the face of racism by correcting the voluntary behaviors that lead to poverty.

Blaming it all on racism, as so many on the left do, is a trap.
 

KnightOfSappho

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You’re missing a key point. As individuals there is little we can do to change the racist thoughts of others. But we are in complete control of the values that drive the decisions we make. So it’s not a question of whether to ignore racism or not, it’s more about getting the individual to understand much is possible even in the face of racism by correcting the voluntary behaviors that lead to poverty.

Blaming it all on racism, as so many on the left do, is a trap.
The values of most people are initially formed from what their caregivers teach then friends and schoolmates then life experiences in general; what do you say to the high school kid in inner city Detroit that would make sense with his reality? Yes, people can choose to think differently but, unfortunately, many of the causes of poverty (like leaving school) happen before the age when that understanding happens.

I can't speak for the left since I am middle, but if you look at the FIRST SENTENCE of the post you are responding to, you will see that I already made that exact point about racism.
 
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You’re missing a key point. As individuals there is little we can do to change the racist thoughts of others. But we are in complete control of the values that drive the decisions we make. So it’s not a question of whether to ignore racism or not, it’s more about getting the individual to understand much is possible even in the face of racism by correcting the voluntary behaviors that lead to poverty.

Blaming it all on racism, as so many on the left do, is a trap.
STRAWMAN!

Think of wealth as a bell curve, the bell curve of black Americans is shifted to the left from the bell curve of white Americans.
Within that distribution there are black people who are far wealthier than most white people, but either racism is responsible for that shift, or there is some inherent reason for it, that maybe its an inherent trait of black people, that they are lazy, shifty, not of the same quality of white people, which is pretty much the racist thing.

The thing is racism is a measurable part of the American Culture, it's there, it's tangible, it's measurable.

So why try to argue the racist POV, that the superiority of white people is the reason they do better, when there is already an explanation, that is measurable.
 
Dec 2018
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STRAWMAN!

Think of wealth as a bell curve, the bell curve of black Americans is shifted to the left from the bell curve of white Americans.
Within that distribution there are black people who are far wealthier than most white people, but either racism is responsible for that shift, or there is some inherent reason for it, that maybe its an inherent trait of black people, that they are lazy, shifty, not of the same quality of white people, which is pretty much the racist thing.

The thing is racism is a measurable part of the American Culture, it's there, it's tangible, it's measurable.

So why try to argue the racist POV, that the superiority of white people is the reason they do better, when there is already an explanation, that is measurable.
FALSE CHOICE!

What role do you think culture plays in poverty?
 
Jul 2018
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Change doesn't happen in a day and it doesn't happen evenly. Yes, there's ugliness and you often don't have to look to hard to find it.

Yet in the span of half a century we went from institutionalized segregation to a point where an electorate that was 75% white voted a black man into the White House, twice. Is there another nation in the world where this dynamic -- a member of a historically oppressed minority is elected as leader by the historically oppressing majority -- anywhere else in the world, ever?

Racism is not particularly an American issue; it's a human failing, and I think an argument can be made that the US has dealt with it better than most, and possibly better than any nation ever has.
Mexico had a black President in 1829.