Is randomness real?

RNG

“Can not be predicted”, is saying that random depends on point of view and mental capacities of the observer.
No. Predictions in this realm are mathematically based.

webguy4

No. Predictions in this realm are mathematically based.
Can everyone perceive all mathematics? Can anyone?

If the pattern is every third digit of the value of pie in base 8, then maybe somebody with enuf time or computing power could figure that out, but to everyone else it looks random. Therefore point of view and mental ability.

RNG

Can everyone perceive all mathematics? Can anyone?

If the pattern is every third digit of the value of pie in base 8, then maybe somebody with enuf time or computing power could figure that out, but to everyone else it looks random. Therefore point of view and mental ability.
The weakness of man's mind and/of of computers are not relevant to the concept of randomness.

And this is what you seem to be missing. If by some incredibly improbable case the value of pi in base 8 has a pattern, all that would do is show that the value of pi in base 8 is not random. But many, many things still are.

Nwolfe35

The weakness of man's mind and/of of computers are not relevant to the concept of randomness.

And this is what you seem to be missing. If by some incredibly improbable case the value of pi in base 8 has a pattern, all that would do is show that the value of pi in base 8 is not random. But many, many things still are.
Once again, it has been mathematically PROVEN that Pi is an irrational number. By definition an irrational number is one where the digits making it up have no pattern and do not repeat. It also doesn’t matter what base you use to express the number. An irrational number is an irrational number.

RNG

Once again, it has been mathematically PROVEN that Pi is an irrational number. By definition an irrational number is one where the digits making it up have no pattern and do not repeat. It also doesn’t matter what base you use to express the number. An irrational number is an irrational number.
I know, and he was told that before but seems incapable of accepting facts, so I thought I'd try another tact.

webguy4

Once again, it has been mathematically PROVEN that Pi is an irrational number. By definition an irrational number is one where the digits making it up have no pattern and do not repeat. It also doesn’t matter what base you use to express the number. An irrational number is an irrational number.
You guys are totally off the point. The value of pi while irrational is not random. It is a computable number series. Therefore any series that reflects the value of those digits is not random.

webguy4

The weakness of man's mind and/of of computers are not relevant to the concept of randomness.

And this is what you seem to be missing. If by some incredibly improbable case the value of pi in base 8 has a pattern, all that would do is show that the value of pi in base 8 is not random. But many, many things still are.
The point you are either missing or ignoring is a series of numbers can appear random and not be random.

Nwolfe35

The point you are either missing or ignoring is a series of numbers can appear random and not be random.
Yes, of course.
But in the cases of Pi and the square root of 2 they are irrational. They go on forever with no pattern.

Nwolfe35

You guys are totally off the point. The value of pi while irrational is not random. It is a computable number series. Therefore any series that reflects the value of those digits is not random.
You are correct in that regard.

webguy4

Yes, of course.
But in the cases of Pi and the square root of 2 they are irrational. They go on forever with no pattern.
No pattern is not the same thing as random