Is randomness real?

Apr 2013
37,215
25,391
La La Land North
You are correct in that regard.
But again, that'a two separate things. Pi is not random. It is a ratio. But it is irrational. Thus from knowing what the xth digit is in no way can be used to derive the value of the (x + y)th digit. Thus the digits are in a random order.
 
Nov 2012
17,145
5,648
Michigan
No, I don't like it. Just off the top of my head right now, without referencing any textbooks, I think more along the line of an event which can not be predicted with certainty or having the outcome defined mathematically.
The order of each number in the digital value of pi is an absolute mathematically determinable number, therefore not random according to your definition.
 
Apr 2013
37,215
25,391
La La Land North
The order of each number in the digital value of pi is an absolute mathematically determinable number, therefore not random according to your definition.
It can be calculated but can't be predicted. There is a difference. Like the mean of the life of a radioactive sample as opposed to the length of time any one atom sits till it decays.
 
Nov 2012
17,145
5,648
Michigan
Rolling dice is random, flipping a coin is random, whether or not an unstable isotope undergoes radioactive decay is random.
I can build a machine that rolls a die consistently and even give it computer control that would make the die land on the same number or even any prescribed number. Not having the skill to do that with my hand does not create randomness. It only means I didn’t know what the numbers were.

I could build a machine that could flip a coin the same every time. Some people have the skill to control how a coin flip comes out. For a person of typical coordination it’s not very difficult.

For an individual atom undergoing radioactive decay we know there are forces within the atom that will trigger the decay. Not knowing exactly what these forces are and not being able to time them does not make them random, only unknown.
 
Jul 2008
18,573
12,309
Virginia Beach, VA
I can build a machine that rolls a die consistently and even give it computer control that would make the die land on the same number or even any prescribed number. Not having the skill to do that with my hand does not create randomness. It only means I didn’t know what the numbers were.

I could build a machine that could flip a coin the same every time. Some people have the skill to control how a coin flip comes out. For a person of typical coordination it’s not very difficult.

For an individual atom undergoing radioactive decay we know there are forces within the atom that will trigger the decay. Not knowing exactly what these forces are and not being able to time them does not make them random, only unknown.
In the first two cases you are creating an interference in the procedure that takes out the random element.

A Roulette Wheel in a casino is random, a wheel that gives you whatever number you want when you want it is fixed (and illegal)

Just because you are able to fix a result for an event that would otherwise be random doesn't mean the event isn't random, it just means THAT event isn't random.
 
Likes: RNG
Nov 2012
17,145
5,648
Michigan
In the first two cases you are creating an interference in the procedure that takes out the random element.

A Roulette Wheel in a casino is random, a wheel that gives you whatever number you want when you want it is fixed (and illegal)

Just because you are able to fix a result for an event that would otherwise be random doesn't mean the event isn't random, it just means THAT event isn't random.
A roulette wheel? Pure Newtonian physics. Just because the forces involved aren’t measured doesn’t mean they aren’t quantifiable. The math may be beyond anything but a supercomputer that hasn’t been invented yet, but unknown does not equal random.
 
Likes: Sabcat

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