Lots of CFR members & Bilderberg attendees in Trump's administration

Feb 2019
892
168
here and there
#21
Thanks. I see things differently.

The US is the model for the world, a central limited government comprised of "states," nations.

Finding and actualizing solutions for the problems/challenges humankind collectively faces, with no place left to escape their repercussions, will require coordinated, global effort.

Globalism as a solution is inescapable, and an evolution that if ignored mortally threatens all of humankind, and indeed the earth's biosphere.

However, I doubt humankind will evolve sufficiently to avoid apocalypse. The wheels are in motion, and even cooperation on a global scale beginning tomorrow is unlikely to stop the inertial that has resulted from decisions previously made. The immature idea that some nations can thrive while others decay is both a greedy thought and a fool's errand.
So it is immoral for the US to thrive while socialist countries like Venezuela self destruct?

At least these folks have a place to try and immigrate to as a means of hope, or would you like all hope gone for them?

I certainly don't see them try to immigrate to neighboring countries like they all want to come to the US. Maybe you are right, destroy the wealth in the US so we are all on an even footing, what will solve all our problems.
 
Likes: LTP
Oct 2010
66,115
26,514
Colorado
#22
So it is immoral for the US to thrive while socialist countries like Venezuela self destruct?

At least these folks have a place to try and immigrate to as a means of hope, or would you like all hope gone for them?

I certainly don't see them try to immigrate to neighboring countries like they all want to come to the US. Maybe you are right, destroy the wealth in the US so we are all on an even footing, what will solve all our problems.
You couldn't have missed my point more completely. Minds like yours are why I doubt humankind will evolve sufficiently to avoid apocalypse.
 
Mar 2018
306
77
Grayson
#23
There is a far more compelling case to be made that America was built on stolen land by an enslaved workforce, and not the 'shining city on a hill' in the wishful thinking national myth created after the settler-colonial uprising of 1776.

A clear eyed look at American history would reveal that America's great success and transition to global empire was made possible by depopulating most of a continent, and claiming its resources, and bringing in lots of free labor. Problem now is that the empty frontiers of this 'shining city' have been all filled up for at least 100 years...leaving no room for the poor( especially immigrants) to go west and stake land claims, and try to strike it rich....the process that prevented the class wars and uprisings that overtook Europe on a regular basis. So now, most of the ways America gains wealth today is by increasing use of military power or threat to use force to leverage the establishment of puppet regime governments that open the doors to export of a nation's wealth to foreign capitalists....Venezuela being the most recent target!

And, it needs to be said again to hopeful liberals, that the days of the New Deal aren't coming back to US shores! That ship has sailed also, and the bipartisan neoliberalism established 40 years ago, is cannibalizing the wealth of Americans at home also, and turning the living conditions for most into the same as third world living conditions. Unless a new system is established in this world that breaks up the transnational capitalist system, it will be more of the same continued wealth extraction until it can no longer function....which will likely be when we're all facing extinction because of environmental calamity or nuclear war.
Okay, I'll concede that a case can be made, but certainly not a "far more compelling case" for your view.

The whites who came to America believed that they were the sons of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob / Israel and that they were coming to the New Jerusalem. You've heard the "shining city on a hill" speech reference many times by political leaders including, but not limited to presidents like John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan. Here is the whole sermon, preached aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World in 1630:

http://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

For those who believe, the fact that America became the greatest nation in the annals of history is proof in the pudding. And, while your dim view of America has some basis in fact, if we talk in a very strict lawyerly way, then one must weigh history as a whole. The history of mankind is made up of the right of conquest. In my opinion, the colonists were as justified in taking America as the Jews are justified by using American dollars to displace the native population there in order to have a homeland.

And using that analogy, it's the same thing that happened when the Assyrians "resettled" the Israelites. I wonder where all of us would be if we returned to our country of origin.

Today, the situation is that the powers that be want us to part of a NEW WORLD ORDER / One World Government. The problem is the rest of the world is not as enthusiastic. The United States ends up spending TRILLIONS of dollars on no - win international wars, the rebuilding of nations, and trying to impose a satanic ideology called democracy on the rest of the world. Meanwhile, they take our foreign aid; they have no problem filling the chairs in our universities; they allow us the privilege of basically financing our own destruction through organizations like the United Nations.

At the end of the day all manner of warfare is urged and implied (when subtly is necessary) against the whites because they founded this country. The blacks want reparations so I've decided that to go along with it. Being a white Christian - Israelite, my ancestors were held in bondage for over 400 years by non-whites. So, blacks can collect on their reparations and then apply it toward what they owe me OR we could call it a wash and move forward. In any event, there exists within liberalism a deliberate attempt to commit genocide against the posterity of the founders. The whites don't have the backbone, historical knowledge, nor the commitment to fight back so the only way the liberals will realize their utopia is to slaughter the posterity of the founders and make it look as if the whites in this country are the aggressors. That is hard to do when most of the whites in this country have sacrificed so that non-whites could become "equal." Slowly white America is figuring out that equality is NOT what the non-whites wanted. The non-whites had their "Eyes on the Prize" (Google that in light of the link to that sermon I left you.) We can call it anything you like, but the attempts to deliberately flood this country with non-white laborers, claim all the political power, remove all vestiges of the white culture and paint whites as subhumans is genocide.

Unfortunately, I don't see any credible and EFFECTIVE push back from whites (especially white males) so this should be an easy "fight" when most of the blood that flowed through the veins of our founders is gone with the wind. The whites are only going to shake their fist at the left, then continue playing right into their hands until their Rights are total history, we are disarmed, and have been instilled with a guilt complex for wanting a homeland of our own.
 
Dec 2016
4,812
2,472
Canada
#24
Okay, I'll concede that a case can be made, but certainly not a "far more compelling case" for your view.

The whites who came to America believed that they were the sons of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob / Israel and that they were coming to the New Jerusalem. You've heard the "shining city on a hill" speech reference many times by political leaders including, but not limited to presidents like John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan. Here is the whole sermon, preached aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World in 1630:

http://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf
That "shining city" hopeful rhetoric disappeared almost as soon as the Pilgrims landed!

“In a little more than one hour, five or six hundred of these barbarians
were dismissed from a world that was burdened with them.”
“It may be demanded…Should not Christians have more mercy and
compassion? But…sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents…. We had sufficient light from the word of God for our proceedings.”
-Puritan divine Cotton Mather, Magnalia Christi Americana

And I had to type this one out myself from a book I've been reading lately: The End of The Myth by Greg Grandin page 11 and 12:

As Puritan society frayed under the harsh conditions of settler life, the frontier threatened and beckoned. The dark woods were filled with witches. And they were witchy, inviting hither. The forest was the place where the community could be redeemed and given new purpose, a chance to once again start anew. Or it could be a place of more sorrows --- "wilderness sorrows," as two early Puritan patriarchs described.the hardships that awaited those who ventured into uncharted territory---where whatever solidarity existed would be smashed into atoms as settlers scattered to escape the rule of the clergy. "People are ready to run wild into the woods again and to be as heathenish as ever, "warned Increase Mather. Expansion could be ---often in the same sermon--held up as the cause of and solution to the difficulties of establishing Christian communities.​
Either way, Native Americans had to get out of the way. They could die: "They waste, they moulder away, they disappear," said one Puritan chronicler of indgenoous people who had succumbed to European pestilence years before the arrival of the Mayflower in 1620, thus clearing the earth for the establishment of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. "God made way for his people by removing the heathen and planting them in the ground," said another observer. They could be murdered: the holy terror unleashed by the Puritans was, according to the historian Bernard Bailyn, driven by "fears of what could happen to civilized people in an unimaginable wilderness and fears of racial conflicts in which God's children were fated to struggle with pitiless agents of Satan, pagan Antichrists swarming in the world around them."​
Survivors could be enslaved; the first patent granted in colonial America, in 626, was to a Virginian merchant and planter, William Claiborne, for inventng a device that would not just restrain Indians but also make them work."​

Anyway, those paragraphs taken from the first chapter "All That Space" wherein Greg Grandin shows how much the perspectives of the first American colonists would have changed from the time of writing that text aboard a ship crossing the Atlantic compared to after they landed in a strange land with local people who didn't look like them or share their language, religion or culture.
For those who believe, the fact that America became the greatest nation in the annals of history is proof in the pudding. And, while your dim view of America has some basis in fact, if we talk in a very strict lawyerly way, then one must weigh history as a whole. The history of mankind is made up of the right of conquest. In my opinion, the colonists were as justified in taking America as the Jews are justified by using American dollars to displace the native population there in order to have a homeland.
I see it as being honest about history and not promoting myth that ends up excusing wars, crimes and abuses in the present day. This statement: "The history of mankind is made up of the right of conquest," is wrong both in the sense that the first evidence in history of a major war was about 1500 BC on the Plains of Megiddo between the Assyrians and an Egyptian army. Prior to about 4 to 5000 years ago....when the first patriarchal barbarian clans begin invading and overrunning the first city states, there is NO Conquests of anyone or empires! It's not like this shit is just part of human nature, as some apologists for evil try to tell us in more recent times. First, human cultures started re-organizing their family and village life around patriarchs, rather than mothers and grandmothers, and innovations like using horses for warfare made imperialism possible.

And using that analogy, it's the same thing that happened when the Assyrians "resettled" the Israelites. I wonder where all of us would be if we returned to our country of origin.
Now tell me you can't see the problem in that one? When today's "Israelites" have created a claim to lands where they don't live or hadn't lived for hundreds of years if ever, because of what they pull from a mythological book written long ago that deliberately mixed history with fantasy, and causes wars, death and hardship for people who had been living on the land claimed by the New Israelites and continues displacement of people today--- possibly leading to a total ethnic cleansing of the Arab populations of the West Bank and the Golan (that one because oil has been discovered recently), then this is textbook exhibit A for why NO conquests should be celebrated, and wherever it's possible to redress past wrongs against those who have been made refugees, that is what should be done! If Christians placed real skin in the game to go with their flowery rhetoric, opposing war and wars of conquests would be a no-brainer!

Today, the situation is that the powers that be want us to part of a NEW WORLD ORDER / One World Government. The problem is the rest of the world is not as enthusiastic. The United States ends up spending TRILLIONS of dollars on no - win international wars, the rebuilding of nations, and trying to impose a satanic ideology called democracy on the rest of the world. Meanwhile, they take our foreign aid; they have no problem filling the chairs in our universities; they allow us the privilege of basically financing our own destruction through organizations like the United Nations.
Complete BS! The US Military Industrial Complex is a tool....a very expensive tool for the average working American to support through their taxes, and it provides few benefits to Americans who have to work for a living! Because most of the benefits are skimmed off the top, as America's empire and expensive military needed to support it does NOT support democracies abroad/but instead overthrows them in exchange for compliant dictators! The real beneficiaries of this scam...the real "NEW WORLD ORDER / One World Government" is something that you and I and most of the nations of the world are already part of and having to feed...like it or not, because the 'new order' has been the growth and creation of an international umbrella of capital amounting to trillions of dollars and managed by large Asset Management firms which have a web of stock ownerships in every major public corporation in the world, as well as among other asset management funds themselves! The controllers of the world are not hiding in secret/instead they're hiding in complexity of modern global capitalism. And this book is like the Rosetta Stone explaining as best possible how the real system of global capital control functions and what it will likely lead to: Giants: The Global Power Elite by Peter Philips
 
Mar 2018
306
77
Grayson
#25
That "shining city" hopeful rhetoric disappeared almost as soon as the Pilgrims landed!

“In a little more than one hour, five or six hundred of these barbarians
were dismissed from a world that was burdened with them.”
“It may be demanded…Should not Christians have more mercy and
compassion? But…sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents…. We had sufficient light from the word of God for our proceedings.”
-Puritan divine Cotton Mather, Magnalia Christi Americana

And I had to type this one out myself from a book I've been reading lately: The End of The Myth by Greg Grandin page 11 and 12:

As Puritan society frayed under the harsh conditions of settler life, the frontier threatened and beckoned. The dark woods were filled with witches. And they were witchy, inviting hither. The forest was the place where the community could be redeemed and given new purpose, a chance to once again start anew. Or it could be a place of more sorrows --- "wilderness sorrows," as two early Puritan patriarchs described.the hardships that awaited those who ventured into uncharted territory---where whatever solidarity existed would be smashed into atoms as settlers scattered to escape the rule of the clergy. "People are ready to run wild into the woods again and to be as heathenish as ever, "warned Increase Mather. Expansion could be ---often in the same sermon--held up as the cause of and solution to the difficulties of establishing Christian communities.​
Either way, Native Americans had to get out of the way. They could die: "They waste, they moulder away, they disappear," said one Puritan chronicler of indgenoous people who had succumbed to European pestilence years before the arrival of the Mayflower in 1620, thus clearing the earth for the establishment of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. "God made way for his people by removing the heathen and planting them in the ground," said another observer. They could be murdered: the holy terror unleashed by the Puritans was, according to the historian Bernard Bailyn, driven by "fears of what could happen to civilized people in an unimaginable wilderness and fears of racial conflicts in which God's children were fated to struggle with pitiless agents of Satan, pagan Antichrists swarming in the world around them."​
Survivors could be enslaved; the first patent granted in colonial America, in 626, was to a Virginian merchant and planter, William Claiborne, for inventng a device that would not just restrain Indians but also make them work."​

Anyway, those paragraphs taken from the first chapter "All That Space" wherein Greg Grandin shows how much the perspectives of the first American colonists would have changed from the time of writing that text aboard a ship crossing the Atlantic compared to after they landed in a strange land with local people who didn't look like them or share their language, religion or culture.

I see it as being honest about history and not promoting myth that ends up excusing wars, crimes and abuses in the present day. This statement: "The history of mankind is made up of the right of conquest," is wrong both in the sense that the first evidence in history of a major war was about 1500 BC on the Plains of Megiddo between the Assyrians and an Egyptian army. Prior to about 4 to 5000 years ago....when the first patriarchal barbarian clans begin invading and overrunning the first city states, there is NO Conquests of anyone or empires! It's not like this shit is just part of human nature, as some apologists for evil try to tell us in more recent times. First, human cultures started re-organizing their family and village life around patriarchs, rather than mothers and grandmothers, and innovations like using horses for warfare made imperialism possible.


Now tell me you can't see the problem in that one? When today's "Israelites" have created a claim to lands where they don't live or hadn't lived for hundreds of years if ever, because of what they pull from a mythological book written long ago that deliberately mixed history with fantasy, and causes wars, death and hardship for people who had been living on the land claimed by the New Israelites and continues displacement of people today--- possibly leading to a total ethnic cleansing of the Arab populations of the West Bank and the Golan (that one because oil has been discovered recently), then this is textbook exhibit A for why NO conquests should be celebrated, and wherever it's possible to redress past wrongs against those who have been made refugees, that is what should be done! If Christians placed real skin in the game to go with their flowery rhetoric, opposing war and wars of conquests would be a no-brainer!


Complete BS! The US Military Industrial Complex is a tool....a very expensive tool for the average working American to support through their taxes, and it provides few benefits to Americans who have to work for a living! Because most of the benefits are skimmed off the top, as America's empire and expensive military needed to support it does NOT support democracies abroad/but instead overthrows them in exchange for compliant dictators! The real beneficiaries of this scam...the real "NEW WORLD ORDER / One World Government" is something that you and I and most of the nations of the world are already part of and having to feed...like it or not, because the 'new order' has been the growth and creation of an international umbrella of capital amounting to trillions of dollars and managed by large Asset Management firms which have a web of stock ownerships in every major public corporation in the world, as well as among other asset management funds themselves! The controllers of the world are not hiding in secret/instead they're hiding in complexity of modern global capitalism. And this book is like the Rosetta Stone explaining as best possible how the real system of global capital control functions and what it will likely lead to: Giants: The Global Power Elite by Peter Philips
At least I see where we disagree. Since you dismiss the Bible as a book of myths and fail to acknowledge the historical facts (secular as you like them), you continue to rely on people to tell you what you want to hear, not what happened.

Other than indulging in a humanist view of history, I'm sorry that I didn't learn much from your post. It was wordy, but without making a specific point. For those who doubt that a right of conquest existed until recently and that nations were taken that way, take a gander at this:

Right of conquest - Wikipedia

BTW, I'm no proponent of capitalism. A free market existing in a nation of freemen is not the same thing. Capitalism CAN exist therein, but it don't have to.
 
Likes: imaginethat
May 2018
4,776
2,987
Chicago
#26
You couldn't have missed my point more completely. Minds like yours are why I doubt humankind will evolve sufficiently to avoid apocalypse.
Yeah, I'm not sure how he read that into your post. I get sick of nationalist idiots like that. they need to go travel to some real "socialist" countries, like Finland and Norway. But that would ruin his whole world view.
 
Mar 2018
306
77
Grayson
#27
Yeah, I'm not sure how he read that into your post. I get sick of nationalist idiots like that. they need to go travel to some real "socialist" countries, like Finland and Norway. But that would ruin his whole world view.
All countries are not all that equal. Finland is predominantly ONE PEOPLE with only 3.5 percent of the people being foreign citizens. "Children of foreigners born in Finland do not automatically receive Finnish citizenship unless they cannot get citizenship in another nation." 71 percent of Finland's population is Lutheran and Eastern Orthodox.

The Sami, a minority in that country number only 4500 people.

Finland Population 2019 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs)

Norway is over 83 percent Norweigan; 71 percent of the population is Lutheran and they have about 60,000 Sami living among them.

Norway Demographics Profile 2018

So, if you're making a sales pitch for socialism, bear in mind that others may attribute those countries success to the homogeneity of their culture, race, and religion. In order to get the same results, all factors should be examined.
 

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