Message for Trump supporters

Nov 2005
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California
The Trump impeachment movement started out with the election of Donald Trump over the heated objections of senior officials in the justice department. Now all they needed was something to charge him with.
Apples and freakin' oranges.
The above is your speculation. Worse, it's a profoundly bad speculation as it should be constitutional duty to charge a president with an impeachable offense when they commit an impeachable offense.

What I stated regarding Clinton is documented. The investigation started on WhiteWater YEARS before they even started thinking of drafting up impeachment on lying about a blowjob.


First they obtained the fake Steele Dossier from the Clinton Campain/DNC ...
This is meaningless.
You're basically trying to conflate one party digging up dirty on the opposing party's sitting president with a long-term impeachment attempt.
No. Apples and freakin' oranges.


After years of investigation, the best they could come up with was the incredibly lame, "well, he's still not exonerated."
ROFLMAO!
No. That's not "the best" that happened.

For the life of me comments like yours scream out how badly dysfunctional Trump supporters are these days.
All you are doing is looking at the situation from the very narrow scope of whether or not Trump was impeached out of it.
You completely ignore all the dirt that was uncovered. Ignore the indictments and convictions that came out of it.


Then the incredibly silly hurry up and wait impeachment over what?
Not taking a White House meeting with someone?
Asking a Ukrainian to investigate corruption that took place in Ukraine?
If the request were truly about investigating whether corruption took place, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The reality is that Trump used his office to illegally withhold funds in order to coerce a foreign power to investigate specifically his political rival.
That is the definition of corruption.
 
Feb 2007
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USA
The Trump impeachment movement started out with the election of Donald Trump over the heated objections of senior officials in the justice department. Now all they needed was something to charge him with.

First they obtained the fake Steele Dossier from the Clinton Campain/DNC (turned out to be one and the same), then they spied on enough Americans that they finally came up with chargeable offenses not at all related to collusion with any Ruskies. They tried and failed to use that leverage to get stool pigeons to sing (after first composing).

After years of investigation, the best they could come up with was the incredibly lame, "well, he's still not exonerated."

Then the incredibly silly hurry up and wait impeachment over what?

Not taking a White House meeting with someone?

Asking a Ukrainian to investigate corruption that took place in Ukraine?

Of course that request was for political gain. But it also had a legitimate purpose in furthering U.S. policy to avoid sending money to corrupt regimes.
However, in reality...

Trump’s Hold on Ukrainian Military Aid was Illegal

by Sam Berger
November 26, 2019

...

Relevant Budgetary Laws

There are two relevant budgetary statutes that are implicated by Trump withholding military aid for Ukraine: apportionment authority and the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). Both laws are intended to restrict the executive branch from undermining Congress’s “power of the purse” under the Constitution.

The Ukraine funding was held up through use of OMB’s apportionment authority. Apportionments are legally binding documents utilized by OMB to ensure agencies spend money effectively and efficiently during the fiscal year. Agencies are prohibited from spending in excess of an apportionment. Under longstanding guidance, apportionments are approved by OMB career officials.

Apportionments cannot change policy decisions reflected in statute; the Government Accountability Office has made clear that “the apportionment process cannot alter or otherwise affect the operation of statutory requirements concerning the availability or use of appropriated funds.”

In addition, any delay of funding potentially implicates the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). Passed in the wake of President Richard Nixon’s refusal to spend lawfully appropriated funding, the ICA restricts the circumstances in which a president can defer spending funds. The ICA’s definition of a “deferral” is broad:

“deferral of budget authority” includes—
(A) withholding or delaying the obligation or expenditure of budget authority (whether by establishing reserves or otherwise) provided for projects or activities; or
(B) any other type of Executive action or inaction which effectively precludes the obligation or expenditure of budget authority, including authority to obligate by contract in advance of appropriations as specifically authorized by law;
Under the ICA, a deferral is only allowable in a few limited circumstances:

Deferrals shall be permissible only—

(1) to provide for contingencies;
(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or
(3) as specifically provided by law.
No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.
Trump’s Funding Hold was Illegal

OMB’s hold on military aid was an abuse of its apportionment authority and constituted an illegal deferral. While the Trump administration was well aware of the legal issues with its actions, it ignored them and held up the funding anyway.

During the House Intelligence Committee hearings, a number of witnesses testified that their understanding was that the military aid was withheld in order to pressure Ukraine to open investigations into Trump’s political rivals, including former Vice President Joe Biden. The witnesses who testified to this include Ambassador Bill Taylor, National Security Council (NSC) official Tim Morrison, Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, State Department official David Holmes, Department of Defense (DoD) official Laura Cooper, and NSC official Lt. Col. Alex Vindman (see the Appendix below for specific statements made by each of these witnesses).

White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney confirmed the reason for the hold when he publicly stated that the money was withheld in part to force an investigation into Trump’s political rivals:

Mulvaney: Did he also mention to me in pass [sic] the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that. But that’s it. And that’s why we held up the money.
Now, there was a report —
Q : So the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he ordered to withhold funding to Ukraine?
Mulvaney: The look back to what happened in 2016 —
Q : The investigation into Democrats.
Mulvaney: — certainly was part of the thing that he was worried about in corruption with that nation. And that is absolutely appropriate.
Q : And withholding the funding?
Mulvaney: Yeah. Which ultimately, then, flowed.
This is a clear abuse of power. The apportionment authority is supposed to be used to ensure the effective expenditure of congressionally appropriated funding, not to extort a foreign power to advance the personal interests of the president..

This withholding was also an illegal deferral, because it prevented the Defense Department from spending the funding before it expired. By the middle of September, when Trump finally released the aid, it was too late and the Pentagon was unable to spend all the funding by the end of the fiscal year.

...

Continued here:

https://www.justsecurity.org/67489/trumps-hold-on-ukrainian-military-aid-was-illegal/
:rolleyes:
 
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Feb 2020
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However, in reality...



:rolleyes:
From your own post:

Under the ICA, a deferral is only allowable in a few limited circumstances:

Deferrals shall be permissible only—


(1) to provide for contingencies;
That seems to fit perfectly with holding back on aid until Trump verified that the new Ukrainian prez was less corrupt than the previous ones.

Investigating the Biden Crime family seems as good a standard as any.
 
Dec 2015
21,342
22,397
Arizona
Was the Steele Dossier real?
Oh seriously---GROW UP. And you can start by avoiding the word FAKE, which is exactly the idiocy of Trump.

Anything he doesn't like is "FAKE": the news is fake, the dossier was fake, the Russian interference and investigation were fake, the impeachment was fake, the testimony of the witnesses was fake. When people criticize Trump THEY TOO are fake. When the media reports a quote or shows a video of TRUMP SPEAKING---that's fake. When we are shown the TEXT of a Trump statement--that's fake.

So to answer your question. The Steele Dossier existed and who originated the search? A Republican! A conservative billionaire bankrolled the work of Simpson's and Fritsch's company, Fusion GPS. If you recall, there were MANY Republicans who opposed Trump....until they didn't. By that time Christopher Steele had begun the investigation---the real investigation--so Simpson and Fritsch pitched the investigation to the DNC and they said "keep digging".

AND BTW, our intelligence agencies were already investigating Carter Page, Michael Flynn, and George Papadopoulos. Manafort was somewhere in the mix and suddenly ALL THESE guys were WORKING for a presidential candidate. Was that FAKE? Should that have been investigated? Trump and Russia? Page, Flynn, Papa and Manafort---all Russian/American actors and all working for TRUMP?
You bet your sweet ass.
It's called possible crime(s) in PROGRESS. So the intel agencies investigated. AND now the Trump-Russia Boys have been indicted--all of them---except Trump.

AND here's something else to chew on. The Steele dossier didn’t start “many months” (Ratcliffe's accusation) before the FBI launched its counterintelligence investigation. Glenn R. Simpson of Fusion GPS testified to Congress that he hired Steele in May or June 2016, asking Steele to “find out about Donald Trump’s business activities in Russia.” The first of a series of memos from Steele was dated June 20, 2016, and Simpson said he would have received it “within a couple days” of that date. That’s one month before the FBI counterintelligence investigation began.

So, YES. The Dossier is real. It is not fake. It was a hard-copy document that turned into a nightmare for this country and turned some relatively decent, honest, moderate Republicans into Forever Trumpers---which eventually they will regret till their dying day.
 
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Feb 2007
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From your own post:

Under the ICA, a deferral is only allowable in a few limited circumstances:

Deferrals shall be permissible only—



That seems to fit perfectly with holding back on aid until Trump verified that the new Ukrainian prez was less corrupt than the previous ones.

Investigating the Biden Crime family seems as good a standard as any.
However, in reality...

2 U.S. Code § 684. Proposed deferrals of budget authority

(a) Transmittal of special message - Whenever the President, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, the head of any department or agency of the United States, or any officer or employee of the United States proposes to defer any budget authority provided for a specific purpose or project, the President shall transmit to the House of Representatives and the Senate a special message specifying—
(1) the amount of the budget authority proposed to be deferred;
(2) any account, department, or establishment of the Government to which such budget authority is available for obligation, and the specific projects or governmental functions involved;
(3) the period of time during which the budget authority is proposed to be deferred;
(4) the reasons for the proposed deferral, including any legal authority invoked to justify the proposed deferral;
(5) to the maximum extent practicable, the estimated fiscal, economic, and budgetary effect of the proposed deferral; and
(6) all facts, circumstances, and considerations relating to or bearing upon the proposed deferral and the decision to effect the proposed deferral, including an analysis of such facts, circumstances, and considerations in terms of their application to any legal authority, including specific elements of legal authority, invoked to justify such proposed deferral, and to the maximum extent practicable, the estimated effect of the proposed deferral upon the objects, purposes, and programs for which the budget authority is provided.
A special message may include one or more proposed deferrals of budget authority. A deferral may not be proposed for any period of time extending beyond the end of the fiscal year in which the special message proposing the deferral is transmitted to the House and the Senate.

(b) Consistency with legislative policy - Deferrals shall be permissible only —
(1) to provide for contingencies;
(2) to achieve savings made possible by or through changes in requirements or greater efficiency of operations; or
(3) as specifically provided by law.
No officer or employee of the United States may defer any budget authority for any other purpose.

(c) Exception
The provisions of this section do not apply to any budget authority proposed to be rescinded or that is to be reserved as set forth in a special message required to be transmitted under section 683 of this title.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/2/684
Thus, even if "holding back on aid until Trump verified that the new Ukrainian prez was less corrupt than the previous ones" were to be a valid contingency, the deferral of the Ukraine aid would still have to be presented to Congress in said "special message," as described above.

However, the Trump Administration simply did not, whatsoever, transmit any such special message to Congress, regardless of any reason why the Ukraine aid was delayed.

And, of course, you are quite free to state your mere unsubstantiated personal beliefs all you like, such as your mere unsubstantiated personal belief that there is, allegedly, a "Biden Crime family."

:rolleyes:
 
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Feb 2020
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Oh seriously---GROW UP. And you can start by avoiding the word FAKE, which is exactly the idiocy of Trump.

Anything he doesn't like is "FAKE": the news is fake, the dossier was fake, the Russian interference and investigation were fake, the impeachment was fake, the testimony of the witnesses was fake. When people criticize Trump THEY TOO are fake. When the media reports a quote or shows a video of TRUMP SPEAKING---that's fake. When we are shown the TEXT of a Trump statement--that's fake.

So to answer your question. The Steele Dossier existed and who originated the search? A Republican! A conservative billionaire bankrolled the work of Simpson's and Fritsch's company, Fusion GPS. If you recall, there were MANY Republicans who opposed Trump....until they didn't. By that time Christopher Steele had begun the investigation---the real investigation--so Simpson and Fritsch pitched the investigation to the DNC and they said "keep digging".

AND BTW, our intelligence agencies were already investigating Carter Page, Michael Flynn, and George Papadopoulos. Manafort was somewhere in the mix and suddenly ALL THESE guys were WORKING for a presidential candidate. Was that FAKE? Should that have been investigated? Trump and Russia? Page, Flynn, Papa and Manafort---all Russian/American actors and all working for TRUMP?
You bet your sweet ass.
It's called possible crime(s) in PROGRESS. So the intel agencies investigated. AND now the Trump-Russia Boys have been indicted--all of them---except Trump.

AND here's something else to chew on. The Steele dossier didn’t start “many months” (Ratcliffe's accusation) before the FBI launched its counterintelligence investigation. Glenn R. Simpson of Fusion GPS testified to Congress that he hired Steele in May or June 2016, asking Steele to “find out about Donald Trump’s business activities in Russia.” The first of a series of memos from Steele was dated June 20, 2016, and Simpson said he would have received it “within a couple days” of that date. That’s one month before the FBI counterintelligence investigation began.

So, YES. The Dossier is real. It is not fake. It was a hard-copy document that turned into a nightmare for this country and turned some relatively decent, honest, moderate Republicans into Forever Trumpers---which eventually they will regret till their dying day.
OK, Steele Dossier: Real!

What about when the FBI lawyer changed the sentence "Carter Page is a CIA asset" to "Carter Page is NOT a CIA asset," so the FISA court would issue a warrant to spy on him?

Was that real or fake?
 
Jul 2019
12,700
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Georgia
OK, Steele Dossier: Real!

What about when the FBI lawyer changed the sentence "Carter Page is a CIA asset" to "Carter Page is NOT a CIA asset," so the FISA court would issue a warrant to spy on him?

Was that real or fake?
what does that have to do with the Steele Dossier?
 
Jan 2015
4,332
2,912
MD
If you were in their position, you would hold up anyone who was antagonistic to the current zeitgeist as well. It's not irrational, it's a political strategy.
What has Trump done (not said, done) to undermine the "current zeitgeist"?