More High School Grads Decide College Isn’t Worth It

Dec 2015
13,751
12,624
Arizona
I completely and totally disagree with you.
I could NEVER have attained my lifestyle and retirement lifestyle if I had not had my college education and degrees. It would never have happened.
Yes, you can get a job without a college education - and sometimes a good-paying one, if you're lucky and skilled. But, for the most part, that is simply no longer true. Whereas once not having a high school diploma left you out of the job market, now a BA does about the same thing. And to get any kind of middle or upper management position, you need a masters or technical degree.
Nobody is suggesting you MUST get a college education to survive - that's not true. But, the simplicity of your alternate universe is naive and not realistic at all.

MathGuy is a child. Literally. You might as well have this conversation with my 4 yr old grandson, Sam.
 
Nov 2012
16,540
5,542
Michigan
I guess it’s still possible to get a useful college degree, but most guidance offices at most colleges will screw you over and stick you with a degree you’ll never get a job in and debt you will be paying for the rest of your life.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Dec 2017
1,634
785
USA
I completely and totally disagree with you.
I could NEVER have attained my lifestyle and retirement lifestyle if I had not had my college education and degrees. It would never have happened.
Yes, you can get a job without a college education - and sometimes a good-paying one, if you're lucky and skilled. But, for the most part, that is simply no longer true. Whereas once not having a high school diploma left you out of the job market, now a BA does about the same thing. And to get any kind of middle or upper management position, you need a masters or technical degree.
Nobody is suggesting you MUST get a college education to survive - that's not true. But, the simplicity of your alternate universe is naive and not realistic at all.
@tristanrobin

You do not understand the system you are criticizing. Most people go to College for (nearly) the sole purpose of sustaining a certain lifestyle one day--which includes a place to live, a car, food, clothes, a bunch of nice stuff, vacation time, etc. Now, the general suggestion made to the young is that they should first use their monetary resources and debt upfront in order to invest in half a decade or so program (or potentially longer, depending on the program) which potentially may pay off down the road if they stick to a 9-5ish job basically permanently. Meanwhile, there is a much more direct route in getting all that stuff up front, and then pursue other options upon one's own discretion when they are cognitively at an age of further maturity.

Also, note, I am not against College (I have nearly 225 credits myself) and community college is an excellent resource, however what 17, 18, 19 year olds are being "guided" toward doing is an absolutely terrible idea. In fact, it is one of the few ways to really dig yourself into a whole in America. Everyone does it due to the general "monkey see, monkey do--follow the leader" mindset instead of stepping back and thinking about the end goals and principles involved on how to optimally achieve it.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Dec 2006
25,656
10,669
New Haven, CT
I guess it’s still possible to get a useful college degree, but most guidance offices at most colleges will screw you over and stick you with a degree you’ll never get a job in and debt you will be paying for the rest of your life.
I don't know that that is true...and if you just take courses without questioning their value on the word of a "guidance counselor" (frankly, I never had one in college - do you mean high school? Or do you mean an advisor?) you probably shouldn't be in college anyway, as you lack discernment and judgment ability.
 
Dec 2006
25,656
10,669
New Haven, CT
@tristanrobin

You do not understand the system you are criticizing. Most people go to College for (nearly) the sole purpose of sustaining a certain lifestyle one day--which includes a place to live, a car, food, clothes, a bunch of nice stuff, vacation time, etc. Now, the general suggestion made to the young is that they should first use their monetary resources and debt upfront in order to invest in half a decade or so program (or potentially longer, depending on the program) which potentially may pay off down the road if they stick to a 9-5ish job basically permanently. Meanwhile, there is a much more direct route in getting all that stuff up front, and then pursue other options upon one's own discretion when they are cognitively at an age of further maturity.

Also, note, I am not against College (I have nearly 225 credits myself) and community college is an excellent resource, however what 17, 18, 19 year olds are being "guided" toward doing is an absolutely terrible idea. In fact, it is one of the few ways to really dig yourself into a whole in America. Everyone does it due to the general "monkey see, monkey do--follow the leader" mindset instead of stepping back and thinking about the end goals and principles involved on how to optimally achieve it.
done_r_hi.gif
 
Dec 2017
1,634
785
USA
@tristanrobin

You do not understand the value of a dollar nor system in the society you live in--which is basically the root of most your politics concerning economics and social programs. You made a number of claims that are objectively false--if a person learns a trade, learns a bit about real estate, etc. they would easily have enough money to sustain & thrive in America without an Undergrad--and in fact will often do financial much better than most College grads.
 
Likes: Sabcat
Feb 2007
3,221
1,576
New York
@tristanrobin

You do not understand the system you are criticizing. Most people go to College for (nearly) the sole purpose of sustaining a certain lifestyle one day--which includes a place to live, a car, food, clothes, a bunch of nice stuff, vacation time, etc. Now, the general suggestion made to the young is that they should first use their monetary resources and debt upfront in order to invest in half a decade or so program (or potentially longer, depending on the program) which potentially may pay off down the road if they stick to a 9-5ish job basically permanently. Meanwhile, there is a much more direct route in getting all that stuff up front, and then pursue other options upon one's own discretion when they are cognitively at an age of further maturity.

Also, note, I am not against College (I have nearly 225 credits myself) and community college is an excellent resource, however what 17, 18, 19 year olds are being "guided" toward doing is an absolutely terrible idea. In fact, it is one of the few ways to really dig yourself into a whole in America. Everyone does it due to the general "monkey see, monkey do--follow the leader" mindset instead of stepping back and thinking about the end goals and principles involved on how to optimally achieve it.
I do understand what you are trying to say here.

From what I just looked up, somewhere between 22-35% of parents contribute at least a portion of college costs to their child(ren). That leaves 65% or more kids that pay for school for themselves. College loans are generally made on the understanding that these kids will have the financial ability to pay it back after school is done. A collateral based loan, which would be needed for buying a whole bunch of stuff to set that same person up in life, is generally only 75% of the value of the property. This allows for recouping costs if the loan fails. With that background given, what bank is going to loan a person these starting costs when they have no marketable skills, no job and no plan to get those skills in the immediate future?

Now, where I think that it would benefit most young people to spend two years in the military before going on to college, we don't have a mandatory military. We also don't have a system where most parents have four years of money up front for college costs. Most parents pay year by year or, more commonly, semester by semester (as I did). Most folks are not set up to carry a mortgage on their own home and a mortgage on their kid's home. Add to that, there are many more costs of owning a home than the mortgage and the "extra" money you calculated for living expenses would not go very far.
 
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