New Age No War

Feb 2014
2,784
1,254
Oregon
#61
Left to Right, I want to believe you are right about the end to war, but I don't believe we are even close to that. Plenty of us smoke as though the health problems happen to others but will not happen to us. As you said, people go into war believing it will be easy for them. If we want to achieve that anti-war thinking, deliberate efforts have to be made and it is up to us to determine what that effort looks like.

I think we war for the same reason football is so popular. Humans are so easily caught up in the drama of life. Right now we are competing for control of world resources and the masses seem to be completely blind to this reality! :eek: We are really ignorant of the petrodollar and what it has to do with our economy and hatred of us. And then add religious beliefs to this mess with men like Billy Gramham telling us God wants our young to serve in the war in Iraq, and our mass ignorance of what oil has to do with our economy and mass ignorance of the mid-east compounded with the belief that our president can know the will of God. If we want to stop war we have to end ignorance!

Effort number one, get rid of religion and increase our understanding of human nature, and be realistic! Are there now. or has there ever been a human being who could know the will of God?

Effort number two, improve our understanding of reality and that means understanding what is essential to our economy and being realistic about what we need and what others need and avoid violating others putting ourselves first with complete and total ignorance of what this cost the rest of the world.

Oh, oh I am on my soapbox but maybe it is practical to list what are the possible causes of war and what can we do to dimish the intellectual problems that lead to war? If we understood the reality of human nature both good and bad, could we make better decisions? I think we can.
 
Likes: right to left
Feb 2014
2,784
1,254
Oregon
#62
What is your strategy for surviving a large military attack in your region?
That is easy, when we are warned of a nuclear attack, we crawl under our desk and cover our heads with our hands. Or if we are at home, we enter our family's bomb shelter. But it is unlikely this will be necessary. If our military force is strong enough, we can keep the war in another country and continue to go about our day as though a war wasn't even happening. Besides, we are God's favorite people and He will be sure to keep us safe and help us we win any war. After all, we have presidents who can know the will of God, because in this country, good Christians elect such men to office. And so Germans obeyed and followed their leaders in a nation where the state is God and all must be made to obey the authority of the state. ;)
 
Dec 2016
5,460
2,780
Canada
#63
Left to Right, I want to believe you are right about the end to war, but I don't believe we are even close to that. Plenty of us smoke as though the health problems happen to others but will not happen to us. As you said, people go into war believing it will be easy for them. If we want to achieve that anti-war thinking, deliberate efforts have to be made and it is up to us to determine what that effort looks like.
Well, my main grievance is with the tech-heavy evo-psychology notion that every aspect of modern civilization...good and/or bad can be explained through natural selection and therefore is natural and innately human! This lie is a very convenient shelter for the minority who rule over us and have the real decision-making power. As long as we are ruled by evil sociopaths and narcissists, there will be no end to war or other evils in the world....including capitalist dynamics that have exhausted most of our resources and are sending the planet into a death spiral. If people don't have reasons or things to fight over, they don't agree to go to war in the first place!
I think we war for the same reason football is so popular. Humans are so easily caught up in the drama of life. Right now we are competing for control of world resources and the masses seem to be completely blind to this reality! :eek:
WE .... are not the ones who are competing! It's the business, banking and political interests who are in competition with other oligarchs and despots. Sure, they will try to make tribal appeals (that's the root of nationalism and all identitarian causes) to win support from those who can't see (at least not at first)that they have nothing to gain themselves in the effort. That's 90% of the story of the first world war.
We are really ignorant of the petrodollar and what it has to do with our economy and hatred of us. And then add religious beliefs to this mess with men like Billy Gramham telling us God wants our young to serve in the war in Iraq, and our mass ignorance of what oil has to do with our economy and mass ignorance of the mid-east compounded with the belief that our president can know the will of God. If we want to stop war we have to end ignorance!
The US petrodollar....instituted after the complete abandonment of the gold standard in the early 70's, has been the primary tool the US has used to blackmail the nations of the world into financing increasing US debt (this is part of the reason why most conservative and liberal economists brush off all notions of needing to balance budgets) with much of that debt-financing paying for the very weapons of war that are used to bomb, blockade and oppress them! If the US public hasn't wisened up to the game being played, the rest of the world has and it's not just a few of America's enemies anymore who have stopped buying US treasury debts. Thanks to Trump and his open, in-your-face despotism- sanctioning friend and foe alike, even allies are cutting their exposure to the USD.

Effort number one, get rid of religion and increase our understanding of human nature, and be realistic! Are there now. or has there ever been a human being who could know the will of God?
What about those who do this by way of religion....usually the religion they grew up with? They may reshape and alter how they worship and what they believe in, but a lot of people stay with their church or similar institutions because it's part of family tradition and it's part of a regular discipline of having a time and a space to put aside the crap and the things that distract us most of the week...especially those who are in their prime-earning years and are stuck right in the middle of the rat race!

I remember back 10 or so years ago when I read Christopher Hitchens's atheist screed - "God Is Not Great," that besides name-dropping every book he ever read from his upper class English academy days, he would offer suggestions he very likely thought were great advice, like 'there's more to gain going to an art museum than inside the doors of a church.' Stop and think about it, and even if you're not bored to death looking at paintings and sculptures (like me) you might take away the point that the museum makes absolutely no demands on you...aside from buying a ticket. You don't have to sing, pray or meditate, listen to a sermon or other speakers, talk to anyone at all. Even at that time, when I took new atheism rhetoric a lot more seriously than I do today, I was left with the impression that...maybe for an egotistical asshole who's in love with himself like Hitchens, an art gallery can fulfill all the roles of a church, but it wouldn't for anyone else, including me.
Effort number two, improve our understanding of reality and that means understanding what is essential to our economy and being realistic about what we need and what others need and avoid violating others putting ourselves first with complete and total ignorance of what this cost the rest of the world.
I don't know who said it, but there's a timely quote from somewhere that: "for most people, it's easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism." I wish it weren't so, because the most important aspect that needs to be understood is that the global economic system is spinning its wheels faster and faster in a dead end, as capitalism demands economic growth continue expanding, while our finite world has reached its limits of what it can allow the human species to demand from it! The entire biosphere is breaking down in a rapid fashion that no environmentalists even imagined possible 20 years ago.

I mentioned something yesterday in a post about a book on the end of state communist governments in Eastern Europe, that average people there didn't realize how much they would have to sacrifice and give up when they and especially their conniving leaders decided it would be good to transition to western-style unregulated capitalism. Once the changes started, there was no way of stopping them or put state and especially community institutions (like soviet local councils) back together again. And today, after decades-long deluge of anti-communist propaganda....where people in Poland and Ukraine for example, blame the Soviets for most of the atrocities committed by Nazis in WWII it looks like a hopeless cause! Because it took so long and so much effort to build socialist economies in the 20th century, while it was so easy to give in to the forces of greed and selfishness, and let it all fall apart!

Oh, oh I am on my soapbox but maybe it is practical to list what are the possible causes of war and what can we do to diminish the intellectual problems that lead to war? If we understood the reality of human nature both good and bad, could we make better decisions? I think we can.
Well, I'm on my soapbox too! And my take is that it is not 'intellectual problems' that lead to war, but material problems. With resources dwindling away under present global management, there may be wars and conflicts over resources that can't be avoided at this late stage in the game. But most could easily be avoided if we could end the brainwashing and cut through the propaganda to call for an end of all rule by the rich.

According to the latest stats, it's now down to three individuals: Buffet, Bezos and Gates, who collectively own as much wealth as the bottom half of the entire US population. And aside from Bernie Sanders, nobody else with a public platform is trying to jolt the American public with that simple fact! And not even Bernie seems to know what to do with it! Since he's not calling for an end to the billionaire class (which I've heard Marianne Williamson at least is) nor would is he talking now about breaking up their monopolies. He's offering an FDR type of New Deal recipe, which it has to be noted, didn't stop the oligarchs from bouncing back after their temporary retreat for a couple of decades to bring us an even worse capitalist nightmare than existed in the 1890's "guilded age."
 
Nov 2013
2,582
1,112
NM
#64
...

According to the latest stats, it's now down to three individuals: Buffet, Bezos and Gates, who collectively own as much wealth as the bottom half of the entire US population. And aside from Bernie Sanders, nobody else with a public platform is trying to jolt the American public with that simple fact! And not even Bernie seems to know what to do with it! Since he's not calling for an end to the billionaire class (which I've heard Marianne Williamson at least is) nor would is he talking now about breaking up their monopolies. He's offering an FDR type of New Deal recipe, which it has to be noted, didn't stop the oligarchs from bouncing back after their temporary retreat for a couple of decades to bring us an even worse capitalist nightmare than existed in the 1890's "guilded age."
Yah. What we need is a soft landing for US-style capitalism. Where is the US version of Mikhail Gorbachev? Do we have time to find or manufacture one?
 
Dec 2016
5,460
2,780
Canada
#65
Yah. What we need is a soft landing for US-style capitalism. Where is the US version of Mikhail Gorbachev? Do we have time to find or manufacture one?
If a "soft landing" means the corporate class has to accept lower profits, you're going to have a hard time making that stick! So far, the only precedent of scaling back the expectations of the capitalist class has been FDR pushing back his Wall Street friends and associates after he warned them their heads could be on the chopping block because of the growing unrest of the Great Depression. And WWII, they had to cooperate with the war effort also, but how has international capitalism responded to a climate extinction crisis that most of them claim to believe in?

So far, they're doubling down on their oil and gas investments to avoid leaving any 'stranded' assets behind, and building safe houses in the Catskills and other getaway locations, and some are going to New Zealand because the most dire ecological forecasts foresee that these southern islands will be the last refuge for human survivors in a coming extinction. So, even at the end, they're all about saving themselves and letting the rest of the world burn! My fantasy hope is that New Zealanders put the hedge fund and dotcom billionaires on the roasting spit when that time comes!
 
Jul 2014
14,715
8,975
massachusetts
#66
Animals kill each other and it is time for humans to stop acting like animals. Humanity has always struggled for a better tomorrow and language has made us more capable of manifesting a better tomorrow than any other animal. Yet our ability to live by reason, rather than animal instinct has been seriously lacking until the technology of the New Age, a time of high tech and peace and the end of tyranny.

We are at crossroads. We can annihilate humanity by continuing to make Old Age bad choices, or we can fully realize a New Age. To make this transition we must destroy the religions from the old age and create a new mythology for the New Age.
Religions will go away on their own, it's the nations that will take some prodding, but I believe that in the future there will be one world government.
That ends war.
And it focuses resources on the betterment of the human condition.
It's the only thing we can afford in the long run.

The real solution is a smaller population of humans, it's how we get to this that matters.
Reducing human population if you do it by attrition, dropping the birthrate, benefits the average worker by making them scarce and raises their wages.
It lowers the value of capital, lowers the economic growth, hurts the wealthy, but who cares, the average person is much better off.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Athena
May 2019
417
72
USA
#67
War thins the population and reallocates resources. These are not necessarily bad. I am sure Hitler thought it only reasonable and logical to do what he did. I am sure the US thought in the day it was reasonable to nearly extinct Native Americans.
 
Feb 2014
2,784
1,254
Oregon
#68
War thins the population and reallocates resources. These are not necessarily bad. I am sure Hitler thought it only reasonable and logical to do what he did. I am sure the US thought in the day it was reasonable to nearly extinct Native Americans.
The US did wrong the native people and I don't think that thinking has changed one bit. It is fundamental to human nature to think in terms of "us" and "them" and to feel sure those who are one of "us" are more deserving the "them". Hopefully understanding humans through science will enable us to be more rational and more moral.

If we would not tolerate "them" sending drones into our territory or controlling the resources of our nation, then perhaps you should not do this to others? The belief that we should live by laws should mean respecting the laws of other nations and not bringing alcoholic beverages into Muslim countries but respecting their laws when we are in their country. I think we can use higher values to manifest a better world? And that is what separates humans from animals. But perhaps we have to get away from religion that is divisive before we can achieve the next evolutionary hurdle?
 
Nov 2013
2,582
1,112
NM
#69
More reading in the area of utopia:

The future of humanity : terraforming Mars, interstellar travel, immortality, and our destiny beyond Earth / Dr. Michio Kaku, c2018, Doubleday, 629.455 KAKU.


Subjects

Notes

  • Introduction: Toward a multiplanet species -- Part I: Leaving the Earth -- Preparing for liftoff -- New golden age of space travel -- Mining the heavens -- Mars or bust -- Mars: the garden planet -- Gas giants, comets, and beyond -- Part II: Voyage to the stars -- Robots in space -- Building a starship -- Kepler and a universe of planets -- Part III: Life in the universe -- Immortality -- Transhumanism and technology -- Search for extraterrestrial life -- Advanced civilizations -- Leaving the universe.
Length

  • xx, 339 pages : photos, illustrations, chapter notes, suggested reading, index

A guide to various possible technological futures for man in the universe. Very interesting reading. A possible tech implementation of utopian ideals.
 
Nov 2013
2,582
1,112
NM
#70
Just for anyone interested:

The founding myth : why Christian nationalism is un-American / Andrew L. Seidel ; foreword by Susan Jacoby ; preface by Dan Barker, c2019, Sterling, 277.307 SEID.

Subjects

Notes

  • Foreword -- Preface -- Introduction: prelude to an argument -- Usage note -- The founders, independence, and the colonies. Interesting and irrelevant, the religion of the founders ; "Religion and morality": religion for the masses, reason for the founders ; Declaring independence from Judeo-Christianity ; Referrals: the Declaration's references to a higher power ; Christian settlements: colonizing the continent, not building a nation -- United States v. The Bible. Biblical influence ; Christian arrogance and the golden rule ; Biblical obedience or American freedom? ; Crime and punishment: Biblical vengeance or American justice? ; Redemption and original sin or personal responsibility and the presumption of innocence ; The American experiment: religious faith or reason? ; A monarchy and "the morrow" or a republic and "our posterity" -- The Ten Commandments v. the Constitution. Which ten? ; The threat display: the First Commandment ; Punishing the innocent: the Second Commandment ; Suppressed speech: the Third Commandment ; Forced rest: the Fourth Commandment ; On family honor: the Fifth Commandment ; Unoriginal and tribal: the Sixth, Eighth, and Ninth Commandments ; Perverting sex and love: the Seventh Commandment ; Misogyny, slavery, thoughtcrime, and anti-capitalism: the Tenth Commandment ; The Ten Commandments: a religious, not a moral code -- American verbiage. Argument by idiom ; "In God we trust": the belligerent motto ; "One nation under God": the divisive motto ; "God bless America": the diversionary motto -- Conclusion: take alarm, this is the first experiment in our liberties.
Summary

  • Is America one nation under God? Christian nationalists assert that the US was founded on Judeo-Christian principles -- but is this true? Andrew L. Seidel, an attorney at the Freedom from Religion Foundation, answers this persistent question once and for all, comparing the Ten Commandments to the Constitution and contrasting biblical doctrine with America’s founding philosophy. This persuasively argued and fascinating book proves that Christian nationalism is, in fact, un-American. -- Publisher's description.
Length

  • xi, 338 pages : chapter notes, index


A very thorough debunking of a popular idea: that the US is founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Very interesting reading.
 
Likes: Athena