Progressive's False Choice on Justice Reform

Dec 2018
3,350
980
New England
#1
From the Boston Globe this week (paywall):

Fewer prisoners, lower crime
By Renée Loth Globe Columnist,Updated August 30, 2019, 5:00 a.m.

Twenty years ago, it was a common belief that reducing crime and increasing incarceration went hand in hand. When he was running for governor in 1998, Paul Cellucci told The Globe he was puzzled by a headline that asked “If crime is down, why are the prisons still overcrowded?” To Cellucci, and to many policymakers at the time, the question contained its own answer: Crime was down because the prisons were crowded. Locking up lots of bad guys for a long time was seen as the surest path to crime reduction. Nascent efforts at sentencing reform or alternatives to prison would only make crime worse.

Now a new national report suggests otherwise. The Brennan Center for Justice found that 34 states, across all regions of the country, reduced both their prison populations and their crime rates over the decade between 2007 and 2017. The data “show clearly that reducing mass incarceration does not come at the cost of public safety,” the report concludes.

...
Fewer prisoners, lower crime - The Boston Globe


The left's new justice reform movement is shaping up to be one giant false choice. There is absolutely no reason why we can't have any number of social initiatives -- e.g. improved public education and/or public health program -- aimed at lowering the contributing causes of crime **and** continue to have low tolerance for crime.

The trouble with this movement's advocates is that they're confusing cause and effect. Prison population is far more of a symptom of crime than its cause. For example, if social reforms begin to work and fewer crimes are committed, guess what, crime rate goes down and so does the incarceration rate. If crime spikes, and many of those committing those crimes are caught, then the crime rate goes down from that point in time while the prison population increases. Crime rates drive incarceration rates, not the other way around.

IMO, this round of justice reform has far more to do with the aesthetics of 'social justice' than of crime prevention.
 
Dec 2015
17,343
16,331
Arizona
#2
I think you missed the message, Nat. The U.S. has 5% of the world’s population, and 25% of its prisoners. Roughly 1 in every 107 American adults is behind bars. Why? Did you ever ask why? Probably the biggest driver of this growth has been harsher drug penalties--mandatory-minimum sentences for drug-related crimes. The laws which were meant to stop drug traffickers caught small-time dealers and the small-time burglars who end up with a life sentence for stealing $50.

These are the cases the Dem candidates are "attempting" to address and criminal justice reforms are already underway.
This is NOTHING new.
More than 2/3 of all inmates in local jails weren't even convicted. They couldn't afford the bail money.
The Dem candidates are stating their views on all areas of the prison system, including the death penalty, cash bail reform, Cocaine sentencing disparities, mandatory minimum sentences, private prisons and inhumane treatment.

As a voter I am interested in what they've got to say and YOU should be too.
 
Dec 2018
3,350
980
New England
#3
I think you missed the message, Nat. The U.S. has 5% of the world’s population, and 25% of its prisoners. Roughly 1 in every 107 American adults is behind bars. Why? Did you ever ask why? Probably the biggest driver of this growth has been harsher drug penalties--mandatory-minimum sentences for drug-related crimes. The laws which were meant to stop drug traffickers caught small-time dealers and the small-time burglars who end up with a life sentence for stealing $50.

These are the cases the Dem candidates are "attempting" to address and criminal justice reforms are already underway.
This is NOTHING new.
More than 2/3 of all inmates in local jails weren't even convicted. They couldn't afford the bail money.
The Dem candidates are stating their views on all areas of the prison system, including the death penalty, cash bail reform, Cocaine sentencing disparities, mandatory minimum sentences, private prisons and inhumane treatment.

As a voter I am interested in what they've got to say and YOU should be too.
Sorry, Clara, there's a new breed of DA that's popping up across America's cities. In Boston it's DA, Rachael Rollins (google her if you like); she seems to weigh the severity of the crime based on the skin color of those found guilty. The same thing is happening in cities like NYC and SF. They're not looking to prevent crime; they're looking to get the racial mix of the prison population just right, and the quality of life in these cities is starting to suffer.
 
Likes: BondJmsBond
Dec 2015
17,343
16,331
Arizona
#4
Sorry, Clara, there's a new breed of DA that's popping up across America's cities. In Boston it's DA, Rachael Rollins (google her if you like); she seems to weigh the severity of the crime based on the skin color of those found guilty. The same thing is happening in cities like NYC and SF. They're not looking to prevent crime; they're looking to get the racial mix of the prison population just right, and the quality of life in these cities is starting to suffer.
As usual, your Fortune Cookie is wrong. Try some Sushi and Sake. You'll feel better soon. :cool:
 
Jul 2014
14,932
9,155
massachusetts
#6
The criminal justice system is a form of social control, that has been used to oppress minorities in the United States.
We'd like to see it reformed, so that it protects people from real threats, the high incarceration rate is more a function of a system designed to oppress minorities. We have huge numbers of people in prison for non-violent drug offenses.
Half the people in state prisons are there for non violent offenses, most of the people in federal prisons are there for non-violent offenses, we have 462,000 people in jail who haven't been convicted of anything, they are being held for trial, and can't make bail.

We have a higher percentage of the population in prison than any other country in the world, in history, more people that the Nazis had in prison, more people than Stalin had in prison, more people than are in prison in North Korea.
 
Aug 2019
315
292
Albuquerque, NM
#8
I think you missed the message, Nat. The U.S. has 5% of the world’s population, and 25% of its prisoners. Roughly 1 in every 107 American adults is behind bars. Why? Did you ever ask why? Probably the biggest driver of this growth has been harsher drug penalties--mandatory-minimum sentences for drug-related crimes. The laws which were meant to stop drug traffickers caught small-time dealers and the small-time burglars who end up with a life sentence for stealing $50.

These are the cases the Dem candidates are "attempting" to address and criminal justice reforms are already underway.
This is NOTHING new.
More than 2/3 of all inmates in local jails weren't even convicted. They couldn't afford the bail money.
The Dem candidates are stating their views on all areas of the prison system, including the death penalty, cash bail reform, Cocaine sentencing disparities, mandatory minimum sentences, private prisons and inhumane treatment.

As a voter I am interested in what they've got to say and YOU should be too.
It's appalling and I can't believe there is still anybody that is OK with this. It's the unempathetic right, its not them getting harrassed by police, getting thrown in prison and can't afford attorney, getting convicted easily, getting higher prison terms than others. THe ultimate was how crack possession (affecting black community) and cocaine (rich white community) which is essentially the same drug with some modifications, and one could land people in jail for decades and the other not so much. Every rational, non asshole AMerican should be appalled at our for prison system, and the companies that profit off of pushing for more prisoners

REading the book Sapiens right now (really good, recommend) and they talked about the viscious cycle, particularly with race. Keep minorities down, reduced access to education, being poor, and that will keep them less educated, keep them poor, and the white people can make themselves feel superior even though its their actions leading to this.
 
Likes: Clara007
Aug 2019
315
292
Albuquerque, NM
#9
Absolute nonsense.
Captain of the debate club here. LOL Sorry, it is 100% fact that prisons have been used to keep minorities down. The 13th amendment pretty much allowed for slavery, just trump up some charges against the african americans and other minorities and then you can get free labor from them when they are in prison.
 

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